this post was submitted on 18 Jun 2024

217 points (97.0% liked)

PC Gaming

8251 readers

491 users here now

For PC gaming news and discussion. PCGamingWiki

Rules:

Be Respectful.
No Spam or Porn.
No Advertising.
No Memes.
No Tech Support.
No questions about buying/building computers.
No game suggestions, friend requests, surveys, or begging.
No Let's Plays, streams, highlight reels/montages, random videos or shorts.
No off-topic posts/comments.
Use the original source, no clickbait titles, no duplicates. (Submissions should be from the original source if possible, unless from paywalled or non-english sources. If the title is clickbait or lacks context you may lightly edit the title.)

founded 1 year ago

MODERATORS

UncleBadTouch@lemmy.ca

EXiLExJD@lemmy.ca

KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com

217

As Starfield Steam Reviews Plunge to ‘Mostly Negative,’ Todd Howard Responds to Paid Mods Backlash - IGN (web.archive.org)

submitted 3 months ago by alessandro@lemmy.ca to c/pcgaming@lemmy.ca

44 comments fedilink hide all child comments

all 45 comments

sorted by: hot top controversial new old

[–] Havald@lemmy.world 188 points 3 months ago (8 children)

Again with this bullshit.

“As it comes to, particularly the creators out there, look, our view is, a lot of them have gone from hobbyists to professionals. And it’s part of our job to make sure they can do that and they do get paid and they see the monetary rewards if they make awesome content,” Howard said.

This is such horseshit. This isn't about "making sure that they get paid" this is about Bethesda getting a cut of those profits, nothing more nothing less. The way modding is right now is perfect, at least from a user's perspective. You get everything for free but if you can afford it and want to then you can donate to the creator.

There's no need for a paid system because that excludes people who can't afford to pay for the stuff. They are already excluded from official content because everything comes as a paid dlc nowadays and now you also want to exclude them from modding?

I think this will only hurt the modding community and the only ones really profiting from this are the corporations.

[–] swampwitch@lemmy.world 65 points 3 months ago

I made a couple of mods and published them on Nexus, and with the donation programme actually made a little money from it, even though I didn't expect anything. If you want to make money modding without completely shitting up the user experience you're better off just shoving them on Nexus and maybe making a ko-fi or something.

[–] Modva@lemmy.world 41 points 3 months ago

Exactly, just another corporate cash grab. From here it will go to "you buy base game only", but if you want this city or that quest or planet then it's paid. You want that npc? Money. The final boss? Credit card pls. Fast travel? That's platinum club only.

And all in the name of "why should you pay for quests you don't like" or some other thinly veiled greed.

But they gotta keep that profit line climbing infinitely you know, somehow.

[–] tleb@lemmy.ca 21 points 3 months ago

If it was about the content creators, then Bethesda wouldn't be making a cut from it

[–] yuri@pawb.social 12 points 3 months ago

As soon as he hit with the fucking language of “it’s part of our job” I was in orbit.

I thought y’all made games??

[–] dev_null@lemmy.ml 6 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You are completely right that they want to get a cut and it's bullshit.

But I don't see anything wrong with paid mods, where all of the money goes to the mod author (which this situation isn't). Some mods take months to develop and a massive amount of skill, and it's sensible to expect payment for it.

It's a false dichotomy between "corporations profiting" and "all mods need to be free". To me both situations are losing ones.

[–] helenslunch@feddit.nl 2 points 3 months ago

The way modding is right now is perfect, at least from a user's perspective. You get everything for free but if you can afford it and want to then you can donate to the creator.

I'm sure it's "perfect" if you're a leech that just wants everything for free.

Reality is that 99% won't ever pay a single dollar for anything if they don't absolutely have to.

While I agree Bethesda only gives a shit about Bethesda, I do think there needs to be a path for paid mods, as that will greatly increase the quantity and quality of mods.

[–] Drewelite@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

It's no shock when a game developer builds a bunch of content on a platform like UE5 and charges for it. No shock that Epic might take a cut. But when it's a game developer building content on a platform like Starfield and Bethesda would get the cut, it should be free? Why exactly? Because you're used to it?

[+] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world -9 points 3 months ago (3 children)

The way modding is right now is perfect, at least from a user's perspective. You get everything for free but if you can afford it and want to then you can donate to the creator. There's no need for a paid system because that excludes people who can't afford to pay for the stuff.

Mods would likely increase in quality if there was a financial incentive. Many gaming communities have both free and paid mods available and the paid mods tend to be much better. Assetto Corsa immediately comes to mind.

[–] cryptiod137@lemmy.world 5 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Ah yeah, a trillion useless triangles that can't even be seen at the scale the game renders at, truly worth the entire price of the game per car.

[–] NewNewAccount@lemmy.world -2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yeah, definitely paying for a trillion useless triangles and not the improved physics that paid mods oftentimes offer.

[–] cryptiod137@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

Could have fooled me, the poorly made trillion polygon models are so prolific that they end up being modded into other games where they also don't matter nor perform well.

When you try to tell the modders not to do that, they get incredibly mad and you get kicked out of there discords.

[–] Rolder@reddthat.com 1 points 3 months ago

And if you really want, you can usually pirate the paid mods anyway

[–] techt@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Thanks for bringing up a point to continue the conversation, unfortunate you're getting downvoted with only sarcastic disagreement to go on. I disagree, but only on a point of nuance -- ideally that financial incentive improves the quality of mod offerings, and in some cases it does (I'll take your word on Assetto Corsa mods). But I'd say it's still a net-negative on the whole because then the financial incentive becomes the goal, not a quality mod. It also gives the parent company control over visibility, so they'll promote the mods that get them the biggest cut, which inevitably will be the shiniest ones and not necessarily the ones that actually improve the game, then passionate creators get disheartened and leave.

All conjecture -- I'm not super active in any modding scene, my only experience is hitting the 256 mod limit in Skyrim a long time ago.

[–] Shadowedcross@lemmy.world 117 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Bethesda tries to make paid mods a thing, everyone hates it. Bethesda when they do it again and again the community hates it:

[–] Dagnet@lemmy.world 1 points 3 months ago

Well, either people like it or they don't, it's 50-50. Clearly Bethesda just needs to keep trying and one day it will stick!
/s (but also kinda not really /s)

[+] rozodru@lemmy.ca 90 points 3 months ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (4 children)

[deleted]

[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 46 points 3 months ago (1 children)

The only way to win is not to play.

Todd successfully drove me away. Didn’t buy Fallout 76 or Starrim after having purchased every single Fallout and Elder Scrolls game all the way back to Arena. Nice work Todd.

[–] CraigeryTheKid@lemm.ee 8 points 3 months ago (2 children)

I might still try it soon, but... Ahoy matey and all instead. I just purchased NMS though so I'll be doing that first.

[–] ano_ba_to@sopuli.xyz 3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Don't forget to do the currently running expedition (always free/not $7 btw) so you get the free cool ship.

[–] CraigeryTheKid@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I didn't know what that meant so I ignored it, I'll go do it thanks!!

[–] ano_ba_to@sopuli.xyz 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

There are two ways to do it now. You can start an expedition with your current save, or start an expedition with a fresh save. If you have an existing save and you have access to the Space Anomaly already (it doesn't take much to get to this point), I'd recommend to do it from the existing save. Eventually, towards the end, remember to end the expedition with the reward ship selected as your active, so you have a chance to customize it when you continue with the current save.

[–] CraigeryTheKid@lemm.ee 2 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'll admit I was "only" 20 hours into NMS and I was feeling the staleness, but a lot of that is probably that I don't know what I'm doing.

Luckily, I followed your advice before I knew it - I did already get to the anomaly and I did just start an expedition from that current save. I just got off the first planet on the expedition. One thing where I think I goofed is that I made the primary save too easy (all relaxed) and the expedition already feels more natural in that it's not as easy-mode.

thanks again! I really like that the expedition gives me a clear "to-do list" which is what my brain tends to go for.

[–] ano_ba_to@sopuli.xyz 1 points 3 months ago

There are a lot of things the game won't tell you. If you're lost on a quest, even in the expedition, remember you can select the quest on the tab (expedition or quest tab) so that it gives you markers. You will need it for the mechanical fauna quest. Good luck out there. It does get repetitive eventually but hopefully you find something you like to do.

[–] CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world 3 points 3 months ago

NMS is a lot of fun. I've done a couple run throughs of that game to the end and it's always a good time, even if it does get a bit shallow after many many hours. Enjoy it!

[–] rtxn@lemmy.world 43 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

They got sued over this, not long before the Microsoft takeover. The lawsuit alleged that the Fallout 4 season pass should've covered all post-release content, including Creation Club DLCs.

[–] john89@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 months ago

I think they'll keep doing it until it essentially becomes a meme and we can all roll our eyes each time we see it.

[–] ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

gamers do have the memory of a gnat but eventually Bethy will get away with it and it will have been worth it

[–] Nobody@lemmy.world 52 points 3 months ago

Old and busted: $2.50 for horse armor in a fun game

New hotness: $7 for a mission in a boring game

[–] undeadfoodsnob@lemmy.world 48 points 3 months ago (3 children)

I remember when EA did something similar with Dragon Age Origins with an NPC that spawns at your camp. They tell you an engaging story then before you can hit accept quest you are hit with a pay wall. I remember being so pissed off, def added to my current hatred and do not buy attitude I have for EA Games these days. Sad to see Bethesda repeat similar failures.

[–] loutr@sh.itjust.works 19 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Haven't played origins but I'm pissed off just reading your comment lol, glad I haven't bought an EA game in like 10 years

[–] And009@lemmynsfw.com 2 points 3 months ago

Make it 10 more and that's when they launched my favourite or all time, the NFS Underground.

[–] Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 points 3 months ago

My first impression of Burnout Paradise was similar. I spent an hour or so waiting for it to download an update, only to find the update was an island I couldn't go to unless I paid them more.

It was all downhill after Burnout 3 anyway.

[–] efstajas@lemmy.world 2 points 3 months ago

That's so immersive! I hope they add in-game vendors that accept credit cards next.

[–] celeste@kbin.earth 34 points 3 months ago

I remember when it first came out to "mixed reviews" a lot of people said they were planning on mods finishing the game and making it fun for them.

[–] KazuyaDarklight@lemmy.world 23 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I suspect this is 80% execution biting them. (Though the cost is still dumb) If they'd left it truly modular and had not infected the main game with the intro quest then paywalled people. They'd be getting way less flack.

[–] CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 25 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I swear that Bethesda tries as hard as possible to mess up everything they do. There’s not much hope left for them so we just have to twiddle our thumbs and wait till they release Elder Scrolls 6, receive more awful reviews and outrage, and then get gobbled up entirely by Microsoft.

[–] john89@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yeah. Unfortunately the only developers that are allowed to release good products in this economic landscape are 1st party Sony devs.

Everyone else gets to profit off of people's low standards.

[–] kindenough@kbin.earth 21 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (2 children)

And one stll has to spend 10 euro's on the creation credits to get a 7 euro dlc. But at least when you buy 2 times 500 credits you have paid 1 eurocent less then the 1000 credits pack. Yeah...

[–] seang96@spgrn.com 34 points 3 months ago (1 children)

This part is the worst part IMO. Designed a currency conversion system so you always put more money in it than you need to purchase the item this does two things and both are a win for the corporate.

Always have unspent money in the account, so kind of like a bank or gift cards, they get the money earlier when it's worth more and can be utilized to get more faster.
Incentivize the customer to be a repeat customer because you will "waste" your current credits if left unused, so you'll follow the lost cause fallacy when something you want hits the store, but not really need.

[–] kindenough@kbin.earth 12 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Yeah, that is certainly why the DLC was positioned at 7 and not 5 euro.

I also think needing to pay for the second half of a mission is like the businessmodel of a drugsdealer giving you your first shot for free. If Bethesda really had any good intentions introducing the creation club for the modders and gamers, they would have given those missions for free.

[–] clarinet_estimator@lemm.ee 4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Wait. 1/100 of a euro is a eurocent and not a centieuro?

[–] aDuckk@lemmy.world 20 points 3 months ago

Last time around, stolen mods and assets being sold on their platform was a problem and I don't imagine it will be any different now.

[–] BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 7 points 3 months ago

The most shocking part is that it wasn't already mostly negative before.

[–] Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 3 months ago

Wait, the game was positive before? The loading screen simulator?