this post was submitted on 17 Sep 2023
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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/5196308

It’s scary that the Unity debacle is not just happening in games but a very real threat not just in digital and app space but in real life.

It can happen in medicine, housing, even the food we eat if the trend of subscriptions and lock ins continue.

Despite this, a global concerted effort towards Open Source tech is still not happening.

In Unity for example, there is a push to transition to Unreal but less so for Godot. We see this happening with reddit too. And soon maybe we’ll see it in real life. What’s stopping our hotels and landlords from charging us everytime we open doors.

We see this in the rampant mandatory tips. Where everyone is automatically charged per order.

It’s scary and frustrating at the same time that there may not be a clear remedy for this. As the world shifts to subscriptions and services, do we truly own anything anymore?

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[–] BombOmOm@lemmy.world 61 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Unreal is creaming their pants this week. They can't have imagined a better sales pitch.

[–] 50gp@kbin.social 23 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

they just have to unveil some new shiny tools to convert from unity to unreal and unity is kill

[–] messem10@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Sadly it can’t work that way. From a programming perspective alone they are very different engines.

Unity uses C# while Unreal is C++.

[–] FLX@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We chose unity because we thought unreal model was shitty too.

Next time it's open source, godot or stride or i don't know, but not unreal.

They would have done the same shit if it worked

[–] hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I've honestly been surprised that Godot's getting a lot of hype out of this. I had expected MonoGame/XNA to be the big beneficiary -- particularly for Unity's 2D users, but also 3D (though I expected Unreal to benefit the most there just because of developer familiarity).

[–] FLX@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

They have been at the right place at the right time.

Never heard of MonoGame but from what I see, it's much less noob-friendly, no editor etc. Looks too different

[–] scurry@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

MonoGame/XNA used to be more relevant 10 years ago, but not so much any more (funnily enough, in large part because Unity ate their lunch).

[–] hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago

It's still pretty relevant. Some of the biggest indie hits of the last several years used it (Stardew Valley, Celeste, Supergiant games pre-Hades).

[–] hamsterkill@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

MonoGame has the advantage of being used to ship a number of indie hits, though. ~~Supergiant still uses an in-house fork of it for their games, if I'm not mistaken~~ (ed. I guess they rewrote their engine for Hades).

[–] excel@lemmy.megumin.org 3 points 1 year ago

Except Unreal already had the same kind of pricing structure that Unity is trying to move towards, that’s why Unity thought they could get away with it.

[–] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Ticketmaster is another real world example we've got right now. Or any service that adds on arbitrary fees that aren't a part of the advertised price.

[–] SinningStromgald@lemmy.world 57 points 1 year ago

Ticketmaster is a monopoly that should have never been allowed.

[–] tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk 28 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Do we know yet if unity's plan won't work?

Games take 3-5 years to make.. you can't change engine mid-development so it'll literally be years before they see any negative impact - during which time they'll be making bank.

From their point of view that's a success.. shareholders care little about long term sustainability.

[–] Kes@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 points 1 year ago

Developers are on the hook for potentially infinite losses without gaining revenue in a per install fee system. Expenses are entirely unpredictable for developers and bad actors can run basic install scripts to cost the company a lot, so if Unity stays their current course for a few more weeks, many of the larger developers using Unity will begin switching engines even if it means delays. It's absolutely worth it for a developer to port their game over no matter the cost, because they are easily looking at no limits to their costs if they don't

[–] Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

I am a strong supporter of open source tech. Specifically the proper FOSS flavor.

It is NEVER going to be a valid alternative when there is a massive multi-million (if not billion) dollar alternative with an affordable license. Because it takes time to develop these feature sets and time is money. Even someone working in their spare time can't put in a full day of work.. and are likely burned out FROM a full day of work.

And that ignores the tendency for GPL-like licenses that are straight up cancer as far as companies and products are concerned. I respect the ideology but... that is WHY companies are less likely to pull a Valve and dump massive amounts of money into supporting open source projects. Like, every time someone pushes a cool piece of software with a GPL-like license I just think "Cool, you are actively making sure your feature set never improves anything"

The best we can hope for is the model used by Ubuntu and the like. An open source project backed by a corporation that sells support. And... the open source community almost instantly turns on that and decides they are evil and starts going out of their way to shit on it at every step of the way.

As for the overall idea of "do we even own anything in this world of subscriptions?". That, much like with the "I bought the disc so I own this game" mindset is very much a fallacy. Because you can get a life time license to version 1.2315151651616 of FooSoft. hell, you can even get 1.x of FooSoft. That... doesn't matter because the moment a CVE is found in FooSoft or its dependencies you need a new version. Which is WHY we tend toward these subscription models because we know we need the updated version.


Like, as a good example: Basically ANY new hardware or software suite needs support for Red Hat, and to a lesser extent Ubuntu, if they are planning on selling their products. Because any company worth its salt is picking a distro with a support model. Which basically means RHEL and whatever the paid Ubuntu is. Because even ignoring any tech support aspects, a support contract is a guaranteed timeline for fixing vulnerabilities.

[–] tabular@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

A universal basic income would allow more developers to choose to work on software they actually like, rather than the demands of business and their proprietary models.

[–] Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Most UBI solutions (which I very much support and voted for Yang in the primaries for...) tend to be built around the idea of providing cost of living for "free" but encouraging people to still suck capitalism good if they want more money on top of that. Which is "good" because it is how you get those rock star developers focused on major products.

But that more or less makes the same problem. Sure, there are going to be people who genuinely want for nothing more than three meals a day and spend the rest of their time doing hardcore development. But, even then, they likely are never going to be "challenged". I've worked with some AMAZING developers over the years and have learned a lot from them. And I would hope they learned from me. Because, during a code review, you see how Nancy solved a problem and might try to incorporate that pattern into your own workflow and so forth.

But when you are more or less the sole "ninja" developer on a project and are mostly working with college kids who can remember what the various design patterns are called? You are likely not being challenged in the slightest and you "stagnate".

And most people who live and breathe "awesome code" are doing so because it lets them do fun stuff on the weekend. Which, until we live in a post scarcity society, needs money/resources.

Hell, if I haven't already pissed off more than enough people with this, I'll add on that I have never met what I would consider a "good" software engineer who doesn't "work for the weekend" as it were. Because if all you want to do with your entire life is code? You never stop iterating. You always want to make the code better and I need to regularly "check in" with you to make you push code to a repository or remove the WIP from your MR. Whereas the people who want to finish their job so they can go climbing or take a trip to the beach with their family or just blow money on hookers and blow? They are able to realize when something is "good enough for production" and they get a LOT more done.

[–] Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com 4 points 1 year ago

There are free OS nowadays that are Better than the paid ones (especially the most used one for desktops).

What do you need your PC to do? If it's word-processing and spreadsheets you are already ready to go free. Other software or "solutions" will come later.

It just takes time because the money is pushing hard the payment models.

[–] ekZepp@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

More links on the subject:

Article - Are We Living Under ‘Technofeudalism’?

Video: Technofeudalism: The End of Capitalism

[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 1 year ago

The right-to-repair movement is showing us cyber-feudalism will fail in time, as is the failing BMW subscription seats thing. We may be moving into a golden age of service and media piracy in which households throughout the developed world simply resort on cracked services. We may be using cracked ink cartridges and illegally-jailbroken refrigerators until they realize the compound public resentment and ingoing war against pirates is cutting more into profits than is gained from rent seeking DRM

We've already seen how the efforts by the record lables to litigate against children and elderly can go poorly and just increase piracy (or worse, decrease engagement).

But it means we'll have to suffer more as the paradigm shifts. Capitalists are not allowed to relent when it comes to profit seeking, making them the enemy of the people. And a government that favors commercial corporations over the public (as is the case in the US) is also, by definition, the enemy of the people. It means any transaction is predatory unless there is a force acting in the interest of the worker and the consumer that effectively dissuades contracts without parity.