I was hoping this might start with some actual evidence that programmers are in fact getting worse. Nope, just a single sentence mentioning "growing concern", followed by paragraphs and paragraphs of pontification.
this post was submitted on 11 Sep 2024
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Programming
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Exactly what I suspected. How could you even truly prove such a thing
It's probably not "provable" one way or the other, but I'd like to see more empirical studies in general within the software industry, and this seems like a fruitful subject for that.
Thx for saving me a click. We are full of options and nobody has data. Down voting the post.
I've seen enough programmers blindly copypasting code from stackoverflow and other forums without thinking and never understanding the thing they just "wrote", to know that tools like copilot won't make programmers worse, they will allow more people to be bad programmers.
people need to read more code, play around with it, break it and fix it to become better programmers.
Hehe, good point.
people need to read more code, play around with it, break it and fix it to become better programmers.
I think AI bots can help with that. It's easier now to play around with code which you could not write by yourself, and quickly explore different approaches. And while you might shy away from asking your colleagues a noob question, ChatGPT will happily elaborate.
In the end, it's just one more tool in the box. We need to learn when and how to use it wisely.
I have heard the same rhetoric about IDEs, autocomplete (Intellisense, Jedi, etc.), DevOps, and frameworks. The kernel of truth across all of them is the separation between a dev and good dev. It is getting easier and easier to have something built for you using AI in your IDE in a framework that abstracts all the things away dumped into a prebuilt pipeline that deploys your artifacts for you. A dev can do that. A good dev understands the tools and knows when to dig into things.
I have yet to see a decrease in the number of good devs I meet even though IDEs slowly replaced text editors (and editors became strong enough to become IDEs). Frameworks have enabled more good devs to focus on business logic. DevOps provides solid guard rails for everything.
I don’t know if there’s an increase in the number of superficial devs. I haven’t interviewed junior dev candidates in awhile. I do know the market is flooded right now so I’d argue there might be other factors.
Also overall I do agree with the idea that letting copilot do everything for you means you don’t understand anything. Shit was the same way when cookbooks were common.
There are a LOT of superficial devs out there. You dont even have to be interviewing junior devs. Plenty of them out there at medium and senior levels. They existed before LLMs were spitting code like today, and this will undoubtedly lower the bar for bad developers to enter. It remains to be seen if this can help the gold developers in a meaningful way.
Anything that allows people to blindly and effortlessly get results inherently makes them more stupid. Your brain is like any muscle. You need to repeatedly use it for it to work well
I’ll bet people said the same thing when Intellisense started suggesting lines completions.
And when errors were highlighted in the code rather than console output.
And when high-level languages started appearing.
I’ll bet people said the same thing when Intellisense started suggesting lines completions.
They did.
And when errors were highlighted in the code rather than console output.
Yep.
And when high-level languages started appearing.
And yes.
That said, if you believed my mentors, we were barelling towards a 2025 in which nothing running on software ever really worked reliably.
So they may have been grumpy, but they were also right, on that point.