this post was submitted on 29 Jul 2023
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[–] Eggyhead@kbin.social 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (12 children)

It's really worth reading the article.

Tor can be used for any internet browsing you usually do. The key difference with Tor is that the network hides your IP address and other system information for full anonymity.

The company behind a VPN can still access your information, sell it or pass it along to law enforcement. With Tor, there’s no link between you and your traffic, according to Jed Crandall, an associate professor at Arizona State University.

I don't know if it's even possible, but it would be cool if I could use the fediverse over TOR just for the sake of supporting TOR. Not sure if there would have to be specific .onion instances, if normal instances could just be mirrored with a .onion address, or if a .onion instance would even be able to federated in the first place. I just don't know how it works.

Other use cases may include keeping the identities of sensitive populations like undocumented immigrants anonymous, trying to unionize a workplace without the company shutting it down, victims of domestic violence looking for resources without their abuser finding out or, as Crandall said, wanting to make embarrassing Google searches without related targeted ads following you around forever.

I'm certain an all-out legislative war would be waged against TOR if it were to become popularized for most of those reasons, under the more convenient guise of "criminals and children!"

[–] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 37 points 1 year ago (17 children)

Tor can be used for any internet browsing you usually do. The key difference with Tor is that the network hides your IP address and other system information for full anonymity

Also, this isn't true. MANY sites and services block access from Tor, including major ones that people use everyday.

[–] freeman@lemmy.pub 14 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Also. Those running an exit node can and do sniff traffic.

It’s bad practice to login to stuff that’s important (like banking) over tor. Or login to anything over for you have logged into over the clear.

Also, nation states can track you using a variety of techniques from fingerprinting to straight up working together to associate connection streams. A large number of tor nodes are run by alphabet agencies. Hell the protocol was developed by the us navy.

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[–] wgs@lemmy.sdf.org 23 points 1 year ago

You don't need to access a .onion instance to use Tor. You can simply perform your day-to-day web usage through Tor directly.

On your phone, you can even use Tor natively with most of your apps.

[–] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

I've literally always browsed Lemmy over Tor. I even made this account over it, which surprised me when it worked.

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[–] zephyrvs@lemmy.ml 31 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I always have Tor installed and I often use it instead of incognito browser sessions when researching stuff. It's sometimes slow and Cloudflare made it a lot more annoying to use than ~5-10 years ago, but I'm glad it exists.

I'm sure it's still more useful to US interests though, or it wouldn't be funded anymore.

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Any time I've tried to use Tor in the past I gave up because it was frustratingly slow.

[–] astral_avocado@programming.dev 10 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Those onion layers don't add up to nothing.. also I've heard it's under constant attack. Plus not enough people running relays and exit nodes.

[–] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There is no amount of money that you could pay me to run an exit node

[–] On@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Hence the rumors that the feds and state actors do the most of it.

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[–] mtchristo@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

I have a special hate for cloudflare in me I can't describe

[–] lloram239@feddit.de 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It would help if Tor would be more useful for regular use. The few times I used it, it was for VPN-style geolocation circumvention. Tor supports it by changing ExitNodes, but the setting is hidden deep down in a config file and required a restart. Not exactly a great user experience for a setting that you might wanna flip pretty frequently.

It's a hidden setting because it's not recommended to change that setting for people who need anonymity.

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[–] sznio@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago (5 children)

I heard of a guy who went to prison because he bought something from Allegro (Polish Amazon) over TOR. Someone used the same exit node for hacking, so they pinned it on him.

[–] astral_avocado@programming.dev 26 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

What country? Sounds like a kangaroo court or a court staffed entirely by old people.

[–] Thalestr@beehaw.org 34 points 1 year ago

court staffed entirely by old people

Isn't that most courts?

[–] sznio@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago

Poland.

He could've easily got it solved but he didn't have money and the public defender just told him confessing was the best option.

It might be a legend, it's just a thing that supposedly happened to someone in a community I participate in.

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[–] NaoPb@beehaw.org 18 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I don't think I really have a reason to use it.

[–] sam@lemmy.ca 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

The reason is privacy, everybody has a reason to use it.

[–] WorseDoughnut@kbin.social 28 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In theory yes, but practically speaking trying to access a lot of the modern web over TOR would be at best painfully slow and at worst almost impossible thanks to DDoS protection providers like cloudflare.

[–] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 19 points 1 year ago (2 children)

This right here. A very large part of the web is inaccessible from TOR. Last I tried you couldn't access social media, Google constantly forces you through captchas because it thinks you're a bot, and anything on a CDN will either forces captchas or just doesn't work. Financial institutions absolutely are all inaccessible.

Privacy is important, but most of the places you want to go with TOR to stay private won't let you in because malicious actors want to use it for the same reasons.

[–] nickiam2@aussie.zone 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Facebook has an official.onion domain and it's the only way I access it, as it's required for my employer.

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[–] NaoPb@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

While I agree with you, I'm wondering what the benefit is of watching youtube and posting/reading lemmy/mastodon through a tor network. Because those are the main things I do. While I do understand that in some countries and also in public wifi networks the chances of traffic being intercepted and man in the middle attacks are higher, I do not expect that to happen to my fibre connection in my western country.

[–] _MusicJunkie@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Unless you browse Geocities sites from 1998, intercepting and MITMing is simply not an issue. Everything built nowadays uses https, which fully protects you against those.

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[–] Zeus@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

then try reading the article

[–] NaoPb@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I'd rather not waste my time reading an article about a program I'm not currently using to find out if I should use it our not. I'd rather see a post that has bulletpoints with pre's and cons. My time is limited enough as it is.

[edit] I realise that my comment will probably come across as unfriendly so I will add some explaining to it.

I am currently in a western country using a fibre landline and I trust my internet provider to not intercept my data or use things like a man in the middle attack. Am I right for assuming that and if so, would tor prevent that? Will tor slow down my internet? I mostly watch youtube videos and read/post on lemmy/mastodon. I am not against using tor at all, but my energy and time are limited so I don't feel like reading a whole article just for an app I do not feel the need to use. I am currently very happy with my firefox browser and all the add-ons I use. And with all the modifications I have put into it to make it work just the way I like. Would I loose all that by switching to tor? I am prepared to change to tor but I am not in the camp of "protect privacy at all costs, even if it greatly inconveniences me". Especially if the risks of not using tor seem quite low in my situation.

[–] Zeus@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (5 children)

okay. perhaps instead of wasting your time writing an entire paragraph, you should read the article and you'll find out that that entire paragraph was irrelevant

it's actually not an article about the pros and cons of tor. it could not be summed up in bullet points about the pros and cons of tor

i'll admit to being a little facetious before, but i implore you to read articles before commenting on them

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[–] sculd@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I will use it if the speed is comparable to normal browsing......

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[–] baltakatei@sopuli.xyz 11 points 1 year ago

I imagine more people would use Tor if they could get paid to provide bandwidth (like Orchid as described on FLOSS Weekly 633).

[–] pkulak@beehaw.org 11 points 1 year ago

You go first.

[–] A2PKXG@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Operating nodes is expensive, offers no reward, and comes with a serious legal risk.

This won't stop the NSA from operating a few. I assume that a significant portion of Tor nodes is run by intelligence agencies. If they control all nodes used for a connection(i believe three are used), they can probably piece together what connections a user is having.

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[–] A2PKXG@feddit.de 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I'm under the impression that my use will only make it slower for people who really need it.

[–] Contend6248@feddit.de 6 points 1 year ago

It will take some performance, but it's also creating noise which is a good thing.

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[–] Lexam@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But that's part of its appeal. How else do I know I'm one of the cool kids?

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[–] wxboss@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

On the desktop, I use Whonix which does utilize the Tor Network. That being said, I rarely use the Tor browser outside of it.

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