this post was submitted on 11 Aug 2024

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This Latina Socialist Doesn’t Want “The Lesser Evil.” So She’s Running for President (www.msn.com)

submitted 3 months ago by UniversalMonk@lemmy.world to c/politics@lemmy.world

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[–] ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (3 children)

I don't assume this for others or often, but I think this account is actually part of an election influence campaign in favor of Trump.

It's 4 days old, instantly super active, and you can see the responses are repeating typical 2016 deflections whose only functional effect will be to split the left vote. The OP's comments are canned bullet points, they don't sound like legit conversation. Every legitimate concern is instantly deflected and misdirected in a way too calculated to be coincidental. (OP, save yourself the time, I won't be responding to you - in the 1% chance you are representing yourself in good faith, please listen to all the others already trying to help you.)

So on to the main issue: I can block this user (to prevent spam on my All feed), sure. But the more users who are aware of this who block this user, the more skewed the remaining voting and responses become and the more concentrated the propaganda effect will be on unwitting new viewers.

What's the best move here? I guess just down vote and move on? Report?

[–] ccunning@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

What's the best move here? I guess just down vote and move on? Report?

There’s not much to report and the community mods haven’t seemed bothered by any of the borderline trolling comments.

They seem pathologically (or programmatically) unable to refrain from replying. Just look at this thread that’s been ongoing for nearly an entire day: https://lemmy.world/comment/11736052

I honestly think downvoting and ignoring is the best route. But we all no people wound be able to refrain. Maybe a “don’t feed the trolls” campaign could help but it’s honestly too easy to get sucked in.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

There’s not much to report and the community mods haven’t seemed bothered by any of the borderline trolling comments.

Because I'm not trolling. And I'm still here, by the way. And still posting relevant political news stories to this political news community.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don’t assume this for others or often, but I think this account is actually part of an election influence campaign in favor of Trump.

It’s 4 days old,

This sub is called "politics" which means ALL political articles are welcome, not JUST pro-democrat ones. They have pro-democrat subs here on Lemmy if that's the only thing you are interested in.

And you assume wrong. Yes, the account is 4 days old. Because I started it 4 days ago. On a weekend. Is there some time period after I state and account that I should wait before I post stuff I in interested in? How long did YOU wait before you made your first pots.

And most of my posts have been to the subs I created and moderate, two of which are Green Party and a Socialist community. Along with several other communities that have nothing to do with politics.

If I were a Trump plan, Lemmy would be the worst place to do it. This platform hates Trump and REALLY hates 3rd parties.

I don't like Trump. Never have voted for him. Never will. If I wanted to vote for Trump, I would. But I don't.

I'm voting Green Party because I want to. And just because YOU don't like it, doesn't mean my viewpoints are any less valid than yours.

Feel free to disagree. But please don't accuse me of doing things I am not doing. Thank you.

[–] pooperNickel@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Don't be mad that someone hit the nail on the head so perfectly. Nothing you have said slightly takes away from the facts they pointed out, comrade.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm not mad at all. I'm voting for 3rd party. And I will continue posting 3rd party political articles to this POLITICS community. Even if it makes you mad.

Comrade.

[–] pooperNickel@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

You're obviously mad. In multiple senses of the word. Hence the endless trolling from a brand new account that all gets heavily downvoted

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not mad at all though. And I'm not trolling. Please refrain from baseless claims and keep this conversation civil.

Just because you don't agree with what I say, doesn't mean I'm trolling.

And there is no time limit about when we can start posting after we start an account.

Also, I don't mind downvotes. Democracy thrives on diversity of thought and opinion.

[–] pooperNickel@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Please state the ways I've not been civil. Exact quotes only

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Sure, you said, and these are quotes: "You’re obviously mad. In multiple senses of the word. Hence the endless trolling from a brand new account"

So you implied that I'm mad, which is untrue. And you said I engage in "endless trolling" which is not true. That's uncivil. Do you think falsely accusing someone is civil?!

I'm not a troll at all.

Dude, I posted a political news article to a political news forum. That's it. That's why you are so upset?

Why on earth would that upset you?

I didn't write the news article. I didn't create this political news community. If you have a problem with the article, contact the publisher. If you have a problem with the news articles that this sub accepts, contact the mods.

If you don't like my post, downvote, ignore and move on. Not sure why you are so upset.

I'm allowed to post here. My content fits this community. And I'll continue to post here. Thank you.

[–] pooperNickel@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Still trying to pretend that third parties can get anywhere near winning? Still pretending that your vote both counts as a message to say "f you Democrats" but simultaneously doesn't count as an outcome (trump winning is not my fault)?

"Untrue" is not "uncivil" btw

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Still trying to pretend that third parties can get anywhere near winning?

Have I ever pretended that?

And also, if they aren't "anywhere near winning," then why would you care or be upset that I am voting 3rd party?!

(And by the way, I'm NOT voting socialist party.)

“Untrue” is not “uncivil” btw

Agreed. Uncivil is uncivil. Which is why many uncivil comments directed toward me have been removed by the mods.

it's also against the community's rules to accuse people of trolling. Take a look at the sidebar, friend.

[–] pooperNickel@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If you aren't pretending a third party can win, you're either saying you don't know how American presidential elections run or you're admitting to letting trump essentially have your vote.

Also nice try but none of my comments here have been removed lol

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago

If you aren’t pretending a third party can win,

I'm not "pretending" anything. I didn't write the article. I posted a political news article to a Lemmy political news community

Also nice try but none of my comments here have been removed lol

But I'm not trying to get your comments in this thread removed. As long as you are civil, I have no issues with you. And I respect your right to your opinion, I just disagree with that opinion.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago

It’s 4 days old, instantly super active,

And here I am, still here, now 12 days old. And still posting. And I've posted articles on Libertarian candidates, who actually bleed votes away from Trump. So exactly how am I trying to influence campaigns in favor of Trump?

[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

she gets Trump elected and is deported in the round up in 2025

Oh wait, she's a self identified socialist. Yeah, the White Nationalists will just disappear her.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago (3 children)

How would SHE get Trump elected!? She's not voting for him.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Tell me you don't understand FPTP without telling me you don't understand FPTP

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I'm voting 3rd party. Now. I'm not waiting. Democrats have been saying they are gonna change things up for 50 years now. Green Party is my home right now.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Do you assume both parties are the same? Are you one of those "enlightened centrists" or just an idealist? Because I have news for you buddy, one of those parties is going to result in the death of millions of Americans, plus millions of additional Gazan and Ukrainian and possibly Taiwanese deaths. It may not affect you because you're privileged enough to be in the "in" group, but your disdain for your countrymen speaks volumes about your character, and you should be ashamed. That's what's at risk this election. Don't let your moral high horse cloud your view.

I want to see FPTP reform just as everyone else on Lemmy, and I'd love to see a third party rise up, but we need to still have a country in 2025 to even attempt reform.

Maybe when everyone around you starts"disappearing", your high horse will protect you from the leopards

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -3 points 3 months ago

but your disdain for your countrymen speaks volumes about your character, and you should be ashamed.

Beause I am voting Green Party?! Wow, ok. But I'm not ashamed about voting for a candidate I believe in. And many of my friends feel the same way.

I want to see FPTP reform just as everyone else on Lemmy, and I’d love to see a third party rise up,

Yet, you just said I should be "ashamed" for voting for the 3rd party candidate I believe in.

Maybe when everyone around you is dying or getting deported, your high horse will protect you from the leopards

How would my voting for the candidate I want to have anything to do with dying or getting deported? Do you even know what the Green Party stands for?!

If you are that worried about your candidate not winning, then work on having stronger candidates.

I, and many of my friends, are voting for Jill Stein. Should I let my social group know that you think they should be "ashamed" and that you hope their "high horse will protect" them "from the leopards"?

And what about all the thousands of people voting 3rd party this election? Should they ALL be ashamed? So they ALL are wrong? And only YOU are right?

You starting to sound like a bully. You're bullying me and implying that I am advocating for deaths is incorrect, and offensive, and it hasn't changed my mind. Quite the opposite. Your attitude made me feel more strongly about what I am doing, than I did before.

Attitudes like yours are exactly what is keeping young people from joining your party. And inspired me to volunteer more, donate more, and advocate more for the Green Party.

You're not gaining people to your side by saying variations of "You're with us or you're against us. And you are murderous!" That's why you are losing young votes. Think about your tone and how you talk to people.

But hey, on the bright side, I'm way older than you. And I was gonna vote Green Party before your diatribe, so there is that...

[–] sxan@midwest.social 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I must have responded to you with the Wikipedia article about spoiler candidates in First Past The Post election systems at least twice. You either disagree with accepted political science theory, or you're simply refusing to read it understand it. If it's the former, it implies that you believe that your gut instincts make you smarter than people who study this field professionally; the latter implies you're a blind ideologue.

I would be thrilled if there's a third option and you are able to respond - even if only with a link; I'm not too lazy to read a paper - to a counter-theory or counter-argument to strategic voting and the political strategy of employing spoiler candidates from an even halfway respectable source.

It'd also be heartening if you could confirm that you understand the fundamentals of the current US presidential election system, and how it differs from other systems such as Approval, Ranked Choice, STAR, or any other system. Bonus points if you understand what a Condorcet Winner is, and how it relates to the US Presidential General Election. Otherwise, it feels as if you're thinking with your genitals, or consulting crystals, or something.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If the Democrats are worried about anyone "spoiling" their election, then they should get a stronger candidate. I don't think any 3rd parties spoil anything other than people's love for only having a duopoly in power. I've voting Green Party. Proudly. As is my right.

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Yes, it's your right to vote Green. Just as it's Eric Trump's right to vote for Donald Trump.

In doing so, you and Eric make yourselves the enemies of people who want to protect the rights of women and preserve democracy.

You should, and will, be regarded by Democrats no better than someone wearing a MAGA hat. As is our right.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Yes, it’s your right to vote Green.

It is.

In doing so, you and Eric make yourselves the enemies of people who want to protect the rights of women and preserve democracy.

So now I am an "enemy" because I don't vote for your fav candidate?! Strange wording, but ok. And I am voting for "people who want to protect the rights of women and preserve democracy." That's why I'm voting Green Party. And proud of it. In spite of the bullying I am getting here.

You should, and will, be regarded by Democrats exactly the same as someone wearing a MAGA hat. As is our right.

Yep, bullying and pressure, sounds about right. Democrats are proving to be exactly the same as Repubilicans.

But yeah, it is your right to do that. And makes me even more proud to vote for the Green Party! :)

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

So now I am an "enemy"

Democrats consider Trump voters their enemy. Why do you think they should treat Stein voters differently?

Yep, bullying and pressure,

Nobody is pressuring you.

The most pathetic thing about Green voters is that they think Democrats are trying to "pressure" them to switch to voting for Democrats. They aren't, for the same reason they aren't "pressuring" Eric Trump to switch to voting for Democrats.

Democratic campaigns focus all of their attention on their base (not you) and undecided voters (also not you). They give zero fucks about reaching Green voters. So they have one thing in common with Republicans: they see Greens as an obstruction that will easily be overcome.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Democrats consider Trump voters their enemy. Why do you think they should treat Stein voters differently?

How about not seeing everyone as your enemy? The republicans do that. And you guys are becoming just like them.

Nobody is pressuring you.

Friend, if you have seen the comments I get. lol

The most pathetic thing about Green voters is that they think Democrats are trying to “pressure” them to switch to voting for Democrats.

Friend, if you have seen the comments I get. lol

Democrat campaigns focus all of their attention on their base (not you) and undecided voters (also not you). They give zero fucks about reaching Green voters.

Now friend, I REALLY have to say you need to see some of the comments I get. lololololol

But hey, it's fine. Like you said, I'm not undecided. So I'll keep voting for my fav party, and they'll keep mocking me for it. Doesn't bother me at all. :)

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

OK, "enemy" or not, Democrats and Greens are indisputably opponents. So you should expect to be treated as one.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago

OK, “enemy” or not, Democrats and Greens are indisputably opponents. So you should expect to be treated as one.

Ok, now that I can accept.

[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

It's a common tactic for Republicans to push 3rd party candidates to chip away at the democratic ticket.

Republicans are literally a cult at this point. They vote for whoever Dear Leader tells them to. I bet if you dig into the money, you'll find Republicans behind it.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago (4 children)

Well I think if Republicans really want votes, then they would want people to vote for them. If you are worried about losing votes, then your Democratic candidate needs to be stronger. Don't blame 3rd parties for your failure. That's all on you guys.

And by the way, Democrats are just as much a cult as Republicans are. I have the downvotes to prove it! lmao

[–] Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

You have a strong candidate who wants to fight for you. If you don't want to vote for her, that's your failure.

You "both sides" people are a cult who are convinced you're more smarter than the rest of us who are actually paying attention.

I would flip to Republican in a heartbeat if I thought it was best for the country and their candidate actually had the citizens' best interests in mind.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

You have a strong candidate who wants to fight for you.

Yeah I do, and her name is Jill Stein. And that's why I'm voting for her.

You “both sides” people are a cult who are convinced you’re more smarter than the rest of us who are actually paying attention.

Nope. I just have a different opinion than you. And I am voting for who I want to be president. Even if YOU don't like her, it's MY choice. And my right.

I would flip to Republican in a heartbeat if I thought it was best for the country and their candidate actually had the citizens’ best interests in mind.

And I support your right to vote for whoever you want. As you should support my right.

[–] tiefling@lemmy.blahaj.zone 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

Republicans know no sane person is going to vote for Project Orange, so their next best bet is to get rid of the opposition by dilluding the Democrat vote

To be clear, I'm not saying this to explain it to you. I'm saying it to explain it to anyone else who may be reading this thread.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago

Republicans know no sane person is going to vote for Project Orange, so their next best bet is to get rid of the opposition by dilluding the Democrat vote

Do you honestly think that Republicans are clever enough to think that far ahead? Come on now, friend. Let's be real. Just because you don't like the fact that I am voting for someone YOU don't like, doesn't mean all 3rd parties are some vast republican conspiracy. The republicans can barely handled their own affairs.

To be clear, I’m not saying this to explain it to you. I’m saying it to explain it to anyone else who may be reading this thread.

Well, you didn't explain anything. You gave your theory. And I disagree with you.

[–] TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

No, democrats are not, and downvotes don't prove anything, lol. It's just that you don't understand that a vote for third-party candidates is a vote for Trump in our two party system, and your painting both parties as the same proves it.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago

No, democrats are not,

Yes they are. That's my, and many others, opinion. You disagree. Ok, cool. You think what you want, I'll think what I want. And I'm voting Green Party this year, so I don't really care that much about your party anymore.

It’s just that you don’t understand that a vote for third-party candidates is a vote for Trump in our two party system

First a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. If i wanted to vote for Trump, then I'd vote for him. And also, we need more than a two party system. I support more parties. And I'm voting Green Party this year.

In my opinion, the Dems and the Repubs are exactly the same. And I won't support them. And I'm voting 3rd party. Proudly.

[–] dhork@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago) (1 children)

I'm convinced Republicans have been wanting to fund secret third party campaigns since 1992, when H Ross Perot waged the most successful independant campaign in recent memory. He didn't get any electoral votes, but got 20% of the popular vote. Clinton won his first term with only 43% of the vote. Republicans convinced themselves that Perot stole more votes from Bush than Clinton, and that if Perot didn't run, Bush would probably have won.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago* (last edited 3 months ago)

Then you have much more faith in the Republicans ability to be smart, than I do. I don't think they have anything to do with it. Not everything is some grand conspiracy.

For the record tho, I LOVED Ross Perot!!

[–] FlowVoid@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

They don’t want to game the system or work with what we already have to make things better.

She doesn't want to do everything she can to make things better?

So she is also a lesser evil.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago

She definitely could have worded that better, for sure!

[–] Omegamanthethird@lemmy.world 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

If you don't want the lesser of two evils, stop painting good people as evil.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago

But the "good" people you are talking about are good in YOUR eyes. Not everyone agrees with you. Welcome to democracy. What YOU want isn't what some other people may want.

And that's ok.

I don't like Harris. I don't like Trump. So I'm not voting for Harris. And I'm not voting for Trump.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Even if the chances of winning are low, De la Cruz sees this election as a first step toward showing Americans a different reality, demonstrating that it is possible to radically uproot the systems of oppression that keep them from thriving. “People ask whether voting for a third option is a wasted vote — what is a wasted vote is to continue to do what we’ve been doing historically, which is choosing from the neoliberal Democrats and the far-right Republicans,” De la Cruz says. “That is a losing strategy. It’s been a losing strategy for many decades, and for as long as we continue to work in that duopoly, the far right is going to keep coming back. The threat is not going to be eliminated. We need to be able to create a third lane where people have real options and where solutions are actually concrete. ”

[–] geekwithsoul@lemm.ee 0 points 3 months ago (1 children)

On the ballot in like 14 states? Yeah, I would say her chances are…low. Would be far more impressed if instead of running for President with no chance to win, she ran for a state legislature seat, hell even county board. Encourage others to do the same. You don’t build a coalition or party by just running for President with no experience or support. So she’s either grandstanding, a useful idiot, or so hopelessly uninformed that she’s got no idea what she’s doing. We need better third parties and you don’t do that by trying to “raise awareness” every four years, you do that by running and winning smaller races until they can’t ignore you anymore.

[–] UniversalMonk@lemmy.world -4 points 3 months ago

I'm not voting for her based on her "chances." I'm voting for her because I believe in her. As is my right to do as an American citizen.