this post was submitted on 20 Oct 2024
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[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 2 points 53 minutes ago* (last edited 48 minutes ago)

Personally, I find that to be good news. I prefer ES's "just do the thing to get better at it" approach over arbitrary experience points to get better at whatever you decide to upgrade when you level up.

It also doesn't mean there won't be stats. The engine still depends on stats whether or not Bethesda makes UI for it or allows granular control of it. FO4's perks, for example, set various attribute and hidden skill points in the background to hard values because that's how the game handles the extra "power attacks" you can make. Instead of how it was displayed to the user in Oblivion, where you get these extra attacks at 25, 50, 75 and 100 points in a skill, you just upgrade the perk and it sets those values to the necessary milestone.

None of these simplifications stop it from being a good action adventure game. I think at this point if you still consider them to be RPGs first and not straight up action games, you're only setting yourself up for disappointment. They haven't been good RPGs since Oblivion first shifted the series to being more action-oriented.

[–] zipzoopaboop@lemmynsfw.com 5 points 2 hours ago

Water down the orange drink, Willie.

I've watered it down as much as it can go, it can't take no more!

[–] slaacaa@lemmy.world 7 points 4 hours ago (3 children)

I’m curious what people are hoping for. When was the last time Bethesda made a good game? I would bet maybe 5% of ppl working on Skyrim are still there. It’s unlikely they will be able to correct course, and we’ll get a new Starfield

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 points 45 minutes ago* (last edited 40 minutes ago) (1 children)

I thought Fallout 4 was good. As a first-person looter shooter. Shitty story-line and same problems as every game on the engine; but still great fun strictly as a shooter. Setting is on point, it's easy to get immersed in the world, all that. It just isn't a great role-playing game nor does it have a super compelling story after Kellogg's fight.

Even Fallout 76 is kinda good? Like if it wasn't for the whole multiplayer angle, it could have been a good Fallout 4-2.

Starfield is such an anamoly. It's technically (and by that I mean the tech itself) one of the best releases they've ever had. Shit runs smooth as butter even on unsupported hardware. But then the game itself is just... So boring. There's no life to the world like in every single one of their other games outside the major cities. Most of the universe is just empty, and even with the RNG POIs, because they are pre-made things that can just pop up anywhere, they have literally no environmental story-telling. And it also kinda feels like they lied about being sci-fi fans because every reference is as generic as possible. It's like someone who has never seen sci-fi in their life came up with everything in the game after a single night of barely paying attention to the top 10 sci-fi movies they found on a random BuzzFeed list.

[–] Demdaru@lemmy.world 1 points 1 minute ago

Oi. Fallout 76 is good, at least now. It's basically just the zany-ness of fallout, with better enviro storytelling than fallout 4 and just pure fun. Nowhere near RPG, but it didn't aim to be an RPG from the beggining, just a fun multiplayer game.

[–] forgotaboutlaye@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

I'm guessing some people are just looking for more of Skyrim. That's basically what Starfield was, in a sci-fi setting, so I'm confident Bethesda can still deliver it. I'm not confident people want what comes along with that, though (bland story, outdated engine, empty characters, outdated mechanics, lots of loading screens).

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 12 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Baldur's gate 3 characters aren't even that complicated. You pick stats at the start from a limited range of options, and then make very few choices when you level up. Some levels you don't pick anything at all. This ain't path of exile.

I got a mod for bg3 that gives you a feat every level and holy shit did that make it more interesting.

To WotC's credit, making character choice really shallow is probably why the game succeeded so well. A lot of people don't really want a lot of choices, especially when some are traps.

[–] MycelialMass@lemmy.world 5 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Hardest part was item management

Yeah, I quickly installed a Containers mod to deal with items. They automatically grab the items (based on how the item is tagged in the backend) so your inventory is just sorted into “melee weapons”, “jewelry”, “books”, etc… The only downside is that encumbrance can sneak up on you, because your inventory doesn’t look full when you open your character sheet. Luckily, sorting by weight still works, so you can see which containers are the heaviest and start with those.

[–] SplashJackson@lemmy.ca 3 points 4 hours ago
[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 41 points 9 hours ago (3 children)

"Streamlining" has been their mantra since Oblivion. TES6 is going to be even more watered down than everything else, but also crammed full of useless things. I'm willing to bet they'll let you build a town. But the town will do nothing and won't have any impact at all in the game.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 10 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

It will do something. It will be a resource sink for a while, and then it will become a resource faucet. Nothing more interesting than that.

[–] Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago (2 children)

Nah, you just described Starfield. They're going to decide that was too easy and gate building behind even more story/skills/tasks for less reward.

[–] ampersandrew@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

I also described Fallout 4.

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

That's not how Bethsoft works. They make everything easier than the last game. They'll decide Starfield was too difficult, and streamline from there.

[–] iamtrashman1312@lemmy.world 12 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

The town bit is so uncannily spot, Christ

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[–] SidewaysHighways@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

I think I wanna fire up Morrowind!

[–] SorteKanin@feddit.dk 7 points 7 hours ago (13 children)

So aside from Baldurs gate 3, who's actually making good RPGs these days?

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 9 points 5 hours ago (2 children)

Owlcat is.
Wrath of the Righteous, and Rogue Trader are great RPGs

[–] goferking0@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Great rpgs but damn do they have issues with bugs, designing puzzles and some quest pathing/designing.

Make fun games with so many head scratching moments on why they decided to do things

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 2 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

I can see that, and those are common complaints. But I'm happy they even bother to put puzzles in their games. And most of them you can figure out from notes or environmental clues. I think it makes the games better, you can skip most of the puzzles anyways. Or just look up the solution.

I have more issues with the menus and character outlines, circles, and dotted lines everywhere. Also, the gamepad control for Rogue Trader gives me motion sickness.

[–] sheogorath@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I love their Adventure Path conversion that is basically straight up a single game worth of content per act. Although the way that the way that they implemented the rules is basically like having a DM that is your partner's ex.

[–] TachyonTele@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Interesting. I'll check that out. Thanks

[–] jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 7 points 5 hours ago

For a generous definition of "these days", check out the pillars of eternity games. They're very good and clearly a love letter to Baldur's gate. Unfortunately the team is now making a Skyrim-like for some reason, but I hope they come back and finish the main game story sometime.

There's also that solasta game that's DND 5e but on a smaller budget from a few years ago.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 5 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Inexile though its been a bit since wasteland 3 and owlcat games.

[–] criss_cross@lemmy.world 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

I've been wanting to check out Rogue Trader now that that's out. I loved Kingmaker and Wotr from Owlcat (with the caveat that I always disable the crusade and kingmaking modes...)

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Its pretty solid but... limited. You can tell just by looking at the map that they intend to fill it out with DLC over the next couple years. Which is honestly on brand for a TRPG based game especially a games workshop IP.

Is it bad that I dont consider it all that bad since expansion modules have been a thing in RPGs for decades and DLC are just a further evolution therein?

[–] criss_cross@lemmy.world 2 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

As long as the base game justifies the price I don't mind as much. I thi the practice is worse when you don't get a full story and it feels like "pay 40 dollars to see the end!"

I usually catch these on sale anyway. I'm the worst type of customer for Owlcat for sure.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 3 points 2 hours ago

Oh its fine on that front, id say it probably has a out as much content as Pillars of eternity. Though I do suspect they will give more endings in time, but that is moreso owlcat being full of perfectionists than anything else.

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