this post was submitted on 15 Jan 2025
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Privacy

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In an unexpected mask off "secure" email and VPN provider Proton took the stance of siding with the fascist MAGA Reps. Proton's services are no option for me and many others any longer. Let's collect and discuss alternatives (E2E encrypted email and VPN) here 🔐👇

Always try to provide:

-Server location (jurisdiction)

-Governance

-Integrity/trustworthiness/transparency

-User experience/ease of use (grade 1 to 10, lets take Proton as a benchmark with an 8)

-Pricing and links

If you know alternative setups, feel free to share, too.

#ProtonExodus

Background: https://lemmy.ca/comment/13913116

Edit:typo

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[–] tomatol@lemm.ee 7 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago) (3 children)

Thanks for this post. Any alternatives for Drive specifically?? Including self-hosted options

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[–] Charger8232@lemmy.ml 57 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (2 children)

I will continue to use Proton and their services, not because I support or endorse any political decisions from the CEO/board members (and I don't), but because they provide open source, secure, and private software that I love.

This is no different than arguing about using GrapheneOS based on the behavior of the maintainers.

[–] glitchead@programming.dev 10 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

Oh no... I use Graphene... what's the deal with the maintainers?

[–] Charger8232@lemmy.ml 23 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago) (2 children)

This video seemed to have been the start of an anti-GrapheneOS movement. I won't get into details, because it's been explained to death, but it's here for your convenience.

I use and love GrapheneOS as well.

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[–] Siathes@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Sooo, can we not create and/or finance our own? Please be gentle…but…is there not enough of us paying for proton and other privacy apps to fund a floss or non-profit version? I mean there are tech nerds all over this place, along with law nerds and political nerds…etc..(meant with love btw) that would have an instant user base.

I pledge here to sub up to $15usd/month for any lemmy person that starts an entity that provides us with what we need with ethics and morality of lemmy common.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago) (4 children)

You need a domain with enough reputation to not just get immediately flagged as spam, or sites outright refuse letting you use the email because they detect the domain as "invalid".

[–] MrMcGasion@lemmy.world 5 points 6 hours ago

If your mail server is configured correctly this generally isn't that big of an issue. You need a DKIM service on your mail server, and with that add some dns records (SPF records and DMARC) to the domain As long as those are in place and configured properly, you should be able to avoid most spam filters considering your domain invalid.

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[–] TCB13@lemmy.world 19 points 10 hours ago (4 children)

This is amazing. People were perfectly okay with ignoring all the red flags in Proton and their products and really okay with buying all their bullshit, then a tweet saying Trump comes up and that's it. lol

[–] MrRazamataz@lemmy.razbot.xyz 12 points 8 hours ago (4 children)
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[–] RubberElectrons@lemmy.world 28 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

🤷 sometimes people grumble quietly until a final straw is added to the stack. Not surprising.

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[–] carlytm@lemm.ee 177 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Sigh.

Goddammit. I'm so fucking tired.

[–] cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 82 points 15 hours ago (2 children)
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[–] JubilantJaguar@lemmy.world 102 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (23 children)

Misinformation. OP is advocating that you shoot yourself in the foot.

The CEO said something silly on Twitter which revealed either that (a) he shares an exceedingly banal opinion with literally half of America or (b) he's not above a bit of preemptive sycophancy to advance his (positive) anti-trust agenda.

There's nothing particularly scandalous in the offending tweet:

  • Implying that the Democrats are now "the party of big business" is arguably true (and very boring)
  • Implying that the Republicans now "stand for the little guys" is dumb but also arguably true, unfortunately - the working classes swung to Trump in the recent election while the Democrats are fast becoming a party of high-earning elites (which is why they lost)
  • Saying that the antitrust actions began under Trump I is, well, true

Proton is not owned Zuck-like by its CEO. It's controlled by a foundation with other stakeholders on the board, including the inventor of the Web himself. In its niche it is still by far the best option. Ditching it for a nebulous non-existent alternative because the CEO expressed a dumb and extremely commonplace opinion is just silly and self-defeating.

PS: to be clear, OP is peddling misinformation because it's not true that "Proton took the stance" of anything. It's the personal opinion of the CEO that's at issue. It's a major distinction. I find it disappointing that people interested in privacy would have such little respect for a private individual's right to have their own thoughts.

PPS: to be extra clear, my comments are about the post above, not stuff that people are reading elsewhere. But the substance stands. See discussion for detail.

[–] CatsGoMOW@lemmy.world 152 points 14 hours ago (8 children)

I largely agree with what you’re saying, except the official Proton Mastadon account doubled down on that personal opinion. That seems pretty clear that it’s endorsed not just by that one individual on the board.

[–] AnAmericanPotato@programming.dev 60 points 13 hours ago (3 children)
[–] xnx@slrpnk.net 3 points 5 hours ago

Can you screenshot it? The link doesn’t load

[–] HiddenLayer555@lemmy.ml 48 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago) (3 children)

Archives in case they delete it:

https://web.archive.org/web/20250115165213/https://mastodon.social/@protonprivacy/113833073219145503

https://archive.is/lBQd8

Text copy of their post:


Corporate capture of Dems is real. In 2022, we campaigned extensively in the US for anti-trust legislation.

Two bills were ready, with bipartisan support. Chuck Schumer (who coincidently has two daughters working as big tech lobbyists) refused to bring the bills for a vote.

At a 2024 event covering antitrust remedies, out of all the invited senators, just a single one showed up - JD Vance.

By working on the front lines of many policy issues, we have seen the shift between Dems and Republicans over the past decade first hand.

Dems had a choice between the progressive wing (Bernie Sanders, etc), versus corporate Dems, but in the end money won and constituents lost.

Until corporate Dems are thrown out, the reality is that Republicans remain more likely to tackle Big Tech abuses.

[–] Sludgehammer@lemmy.world 20 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Looks like backing up the post was a good call.

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[–] chris@lemm.ee 40 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Just puked a little after reading that.

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[–] mean_bean279@lemmy.world 83 points 13 hours ago (5 children)

I love how you’re claiming misinformation while posting misinformation. It’s not the CEO, it’s a board member. That said, the company also officially posted these ideas on their Bluesky account.

This isn’t a “CEO” expressing a belief, it’s the board, and now the official company line.

I’m not disagreeing with their post particularly on corporate dems, but this is a company and not a persons sole belief.

Also, if dems are the party of big business then why are all these big businesses donating to Trump? Does that just mean republicans are the party of even bigger business?

[–] conicalscientist@lemmy.world 31 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

Their bullet points are spin-doctoring.

Also the comment got a few dozen upvotes almost immediately. Suspicious.

[–] mean_bean279@lemmy.world 8 points 9 hours ago

I was thinking the same thing. In all the threads about it. It just seemed oddly suspicious and not typical of what the digital privacy community has typically believed… I mean, I’m also not going to homogenize a community like that though and Proton has been a mainstay.

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[–] jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world 57 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (12 children)
  1. It isn't misinformation.

  2. Someone like this board member being a traitor to his species isn't covered by "opinion". No normalizing nazis. It's such a low bar. He couldn't clear it.

  3. He blasted his treachery over the public airwaves. His privacy isn't being violated.

This whole comment feels like an exercise in using all the best words to miss the point. We know, as does this probably-lying board member, that Republicans are only going to go more authoritarian, and the only reason they would pretend to care about big tech abuses is to grab the steering wheel from them to commit far worse abuses. No company that gets into bed with traitors is going to become the new center of my digital life.

Tuta for email, syncthing for photos bc I'm not self-hosting, mullvad for VPN.

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[–] Not_mikey@slrpnk.net 30 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Implying that the Democrats are now "the party of big business" is arguably true (and very boring)

While true in some scenarios, in anti-trust Lina khan's ftc has done significantly more than trump ever did. Biden keeping her over the protest of countless business execs and daily articles in the wall street journal on how she's ruining America shows some commitment to prosecuting big tech.

Meanwhile, trump's anti-trust moves were mostly based off petty issues he had with the ceos or the platforms having a "liberal bias". Now that every big tech ceo has fallen in line and given him $1 million for his inauguration I doubt we'll see much movement on that front.

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[–] ShotDonkey@lemmy.world 23 points 11 hours ago (2 children)

OK I think I will move to Posteo. Great security, privacy focussed, servers in Germany, running with 100% renewable energy. Prices are ok, too. Ticks all boxes.

[–] RiQuY@lemm.ee 2 points 6 hours ago (1 children)
[–] xnx@slrpnk.net 2 points 5 hours ago

Does that check the boxes they listed?

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[–] 9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 27 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Tweet is from early december. Why is it blowing up now?

[–] Saleh@feddit.org 13 points 10 hours ago

I guess on the one hand people are anxious about Trumps inaugeration and on the other hand this is a great opportunity for competitors or otherwise opposed people to launch an astroturfing campaign off of it.

When looking at posts titled has gone "full MAGA" for saying they feel Trump is more likely to enact antitrust rules against big tech than Democrats who let them down the past years, is just absurd.

It is the same line of reasoning like claiming the WHO to have been a chinese asset because they supported some of Chinas anti-Covid measures.

[–] Akasazh@feddit.nl 9 points 10 hours ago

Damn it my two year subscription just got refreshed...

[–] swordgeek@lemmy.ca 81 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Wow!

Of all companies, this is one I didn't expect.

Damn.

[–] Quill7513@slrpnk.net 53 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

the good news is this is a lesson to never trust any entity whose role in the world is to accumulate capital

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[–] sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 37 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Why would this be unexpected?

Proton already handed over the IP of a climate protester to authorities several years ago, while boasting that they had a no log policy.

https://therecord.media/protonmail-forced-to-collect-an-activists-ip-address-in-police-investigation

Every time, in the past few years, that I bring this up, everyone just acts like I'm setting an impossible standard and no alternative exists.

Proton has been shady for years.

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[–] bleistift2@sopuli.xyz 82 points 15 hours ago (3 children)

Phew! For a moment I thought you were talking about the steam compatibility thingy.

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