this post was submitted on 19 Jun 2023
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Yes, I know that it still exist, and yes, decentralized currency which utilizes distributed, cryptographic validation is not actually a strictly bad idea, but...

Is the speculative investment scam, which crypto substantially represented, finally dead? Can we go back to buying gold bars and Pokemon cards?

I feel like it is, but I'm having a hard time putting my finger on why it lost its sheen. Maybe crypto scammers moved on to selling LLM "prompts?" Maybe the rug just got pulled enough times that everyone lost trust.

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[–] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 27 points 1 year ago (5 children)
  • As an actual currency, it's functionally useless. Even if every retailer on the planet were to accept it, the overhead for making the transaction is just a non-starter

  • Because of that, it's entirely just funny money. Even further, since it's entirely a virtual asset, if the power goes out, your wallet goes with it

  • The environmental impacts are horrifying. This fact alone means that it should all be eradicated. Destroying the planet for Internet funny money isn't an acceptable proposition

  • For a decentralized currency, people sure do love centralizing under large exchanges, and the massive losses, thefts, fraud, etc. have shown that no matter how "decentralized" it's supposed to be, it's still susceptible to the same bullshit as any other currency

  • Its high profile association with grifters, scammers, malware, and dark web shenanigans has completely soured its image in the public mind

  • It's entirely a speculative investment scam now. There's no way to decouple it from that.

[–] liminis@beehaw.org 10 points 1 year ago (5 children)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but since ETH moved to a proof of stake model rather than proof of work (i.e. "mining"), isn't its environmental footprint now a fraction of the wasteful behemoth it was previously?

(Though I 100% agree given the 'gas fees' (transaction costs), it's still absolutely useless as an actual currency.)

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[–] sxan@midwest.social 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I have a few bitcoin that I got when it was new, and I was playing around with it; then I forgot about my coins until it exploded and made it into the public (non-tech) news. I luckily still had my wallet, and I bought a quite expensive watch with Bitcoin when it was near its price peak. The transaction was no more difficult than using Paypal. I could have bought a lot of things; at one point, I could have bought a car with it. There are many vendors who'll accept Bitcoin even today. So, regardless of your other points, saying that it's funny money that you can't buy anything with is simply false. It's worth what people will pay for it, just like the American dollar, or gold, or the artificially inflated price of blood diamonds.

I don't think promoting falsehoods helps any argument. If that one is obviously wrong, what about your other points? Lots of people want cryptocurrency to fail. Lots of people want to maintain the hegemony of the US dollar. Some people even have valid criticisms of proof-of-work cryptocurrencies, and the giant farming installations. It's certainly something to discuss, as long as it's kept to facts.

[–] davehtaylor@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (7 children)

The issue with retail is how long it takes for a bitcoin transaction to be confirmed. The overhead simply isn't feasible. A vendor isn't going to sit around an wait an hour for confirmation that payment has been received. A private seller might not care. But a company that processes millions of transactions per day isn't going to deal with that. It has nothing to do with the belief in it and its worth.

And yes, let me be perfectly clear: I absolutely do want cryptocurrency to fail. That's not about being a shill for government hegemony. It's about there being literally no inherent good in it, either in principle or in practice. From the fact that it consumes more energy than entire countries and pumps more CO2 into the atmosphere than entire major industries, to the environmental impact of increased mining for rare earths, increased manufacturing strain, and supply chain disruption due to the demand for the chips to drive the miners.

Also I really don't appreciate your passive aggressive way of calling me a liar

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[–] Sodis@feddit.de 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Some of these points are not inherent properties of cryptos, like the environmental impact and the transaction overhead.

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[–] Silviecat44@vlemmy.net 24 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I don’t know why NFTs ever took off

[–] shipp@mastodon.coffee 11 points 1 year ago

@Silviecat44 @peanuts4life they really didn't, no normal person bought them. It was just venture capitalist pushing it. It was the complete opposite of grass roots, which is why it crashed 97% when VCs pulled out. Very normal!

[–] Valdair@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Idiots saw the explosion of speculation on crypto and a few people got lucky and got rich. They jumped on the next new buzzword in tech expecting it to have an equivalent speculative boom, which obviously never happened.

[–] arquebus_x@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

The Beeple sale got a lot of press. That was the extent of the novelty, but then the money-eyed scammers figured they had a new grift in the making. But it started with the media surprise and interest over how big the Beeple sale was.

[–] Gsus4@lemmy.one 5 points 1 year ago

Negative interest rates do funny things to capitalism.

[–] rysiek@szmer.info 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)
[–] IHeartBadCode@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (3 children)
  • P2P is the new hotness
  • LAMP is the new hotness
  • Ruby on Rails is the new hotness
  • Big data is the new hotness
  • Machine Learning is the new hotness
  • Crypto is the new hotness
  • AI is the net hotness

None of these died, none of them were the new hotness for very long. Oh by the by, our company is looking for anyone with fifteen years experience in ChatGPT (/s). But in all serious, there's always a very vocal group that's chasing the hype. No idea how big they truly are, but they sure do bang the gong the entire time.

[–] AfterAll@beehaw.org 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Spoiler alert: AI is ML is Big Data.

[–] rknuu@beehaw.org 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also, ML is just statistics and calculus.

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[–] nii236@lemmy.jtmn.dev 18 points 1 year ago (4 children)

A lot of controversial comments. Here are some of my observations:

  • Not a single mention of decentralised finance/DeFi in the comments, which is a game-changer.
  • A lot of outdated information or misunderstanding of recent developments in the industry
  • A large focus on scams and crypto bros, who are the loudest but definitely not the majority
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[–] PixelPioneer@beehaw.org 18 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Well, the irony is hard to miss, right? Crypto was born out of this grand idea of decentralization, but then everyone just rushed over to these centralized exchanges. Kinda sounds like a death knell to me. Seems like the original spirit of crypto got lost in the rush for profits.

I do think the tech and the concept will keep evolving, and eventually, it'll morph into something new, get a new name or something. Here's hoping that when it does, people will get that it's better to trust the collective 'us' instead of just a select few. After all, these are often the same folks messing things up. But, what can you do, huh?

[–] SuperSpruce@vlemmy.net 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

This almost sounds like what could happen to the Fediverse. It's decentralized just like crypto, but the majority of people won't know or care about how the Fediverse works, they will just want to communicate online.

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[–] swnt@feddit.de 15 points 1 year ago

but I'm having a hard time putting my finger on why it lost its sheen.

One aspect might be, that the scam stories are much more popular and easier to circulate on social media than are actual usages. It's a strong online virality bias. Scams and phishing also happen a lot in fiat and cash (albeit relatively lower), but since most of it is so secret and banks really don't want to get bad media, then try to keep such things hidden.

Look at Monero (privacy coin) for example. There is no news on whales, scams etc. there, because it's private so there is no attention given to that. That makes is easier to simply use it and not get an overly negative news bias.

At the same time, cryptos were successfully used during Ukraine for quick money Donations. This was also reported in news, but it doesn't stick so long into the minds of the people as the controversial scams/ftx etc.

Finally, at least with Ethereum there is still around 10 years of development in front of it with exciting new capabilities. Until a few years from now, we'll finally have a system with scalability ans high security as well.

However, until then ethereum will grow slowly.

Also, unfortunately I think the focus of many people has shifted from p2p currency and adoption to money making and investment - which isn't too bad, but adoption still sucks and makes it less useful for now.

[–] borkcorkedforks@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It mainly lost it appeal as crashes, arrests, lawsuits, and thief keep happeneding. It was shown to be scammy with scammers scamming.

And yeah the new hotness of LLMs also helped. The tech bros who use to be pushing "X but with crypto" are now looking to push "X but with AI".

[–] lolpostslol@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

Yeah this, mainstream big players in financial markets already figured out crypto is useless, so IT firms switched to selling AI to corporates instead.

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[–] Calcharger@kbin.social 14 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Crypto won't ever die, too many people have too much money invested in it for it to die.

But it's going nowhere. If I can't buy groceries with a bitcoin, then it's worthless. It got popular because people used it to trade drugs. I don't even think you can do that on tor anymore.

[–] networkofbeans@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (3 children)

You could not be more incorrect about that last point

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[–] floofloof@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

Without practical uses it's nothing but a Ponzi scheme, which is why every thread about crypto has a few true believers urging others to "invest".

[–] pixxelkick@pathofexile-discuss.com 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

No, twitter just shit the bed is all and thats where the scams were primarily spread, but now that so many people have dropped twitter you don't hear about it as much.

Pretty much 1/3rd of the ads I get on Reddit, for example, are still crypto scams.

I will agree though that it lost the crypto-bro sheen, thank god, and companies stopped trying to shoehorn it into everywhere it had no use case for.

There are use cases for it but they are extremely specific and most of the time a normal database is the right tool for the job. You need to satisfy multiple conditions for a blockchain to be the right tool for the job over a normal DB.

Furthermore, even if you do satisfy the requirements and use blockchain tech, its annoying to try and market that. Just as an example, how often do you see video game companies or gambling companies or other websites touting the fact they have, I dunno, a Redis mem server on their backend as a "selling point" of their service?

No one. No one does that, no one cares. No one tries to market what database their backend uses as a way to make their product sound better, because no one gives a shit what your backend is built on top of. They care about the actual features and functionality of your product, not the tech your developers used.

So hopefully we have now entered the era where some services do use blockchain on the backend when its the right tool or the job, but they don't bother to try and market it and no one gives a shit if its MSSQL, Blockchain, Mongo, or whatever else that is used to store data.

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[–] schizanon@beehaw.org 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Weak hands got shaken out, and the economy is teetering on recession. When inflation stops and interest rates fall, and quantitative easing starts back up it's gonna come roaring back. The SEC and CFTC aren't trying to kill crypto, they are just trying to decide who's jurisdiction it falls under. The crypto industry will benefit from regulation, it will get safer, and you'll feel like an idiot for asking this question instead of buying while it's cheap. Hit me up in 2025!

[–] catboss@feddit.de 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I am not sure if you are actually drinking the Kool-Aid or if this is some top tier shit posting. If it's the latter, kudos to you!

[–] PixelPioneer@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago

Haha, it's funny how people think centralization will do any good for something that was designed to be decentralized from the ground up. I swear, it's like folks have totally forgotten what crypto was initially intended to solve.

[–] mahutiburger@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago
[–] Ebuall@programming.dev 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe people understood, that instead of freedom as advertised, crypto brings out even more oppressive forms of capitalism.

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[–] BurningnnTree@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I know one crypto bro IRL. He acknowledges that it's all just a pyramid scheme, but he enjoys it because it's like gambling but with more strategy involved I guess.

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[–] hiyaaaaa23@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

Dear god, I hope so

I hate watching so many people get scammed

[–] TheSwede@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (3 children)

In the majority of people's eyes crypto is seen as a scam and something to avoid. The only thing crypto ever did for me was make things I actually care about more expensive.

I think it would take a lot to recover from the bad reputation it has gotten.

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[–] llama@midwest.social 8 points 1 year ago

While the prospect of using it in everyday transactions seems pretty much dead, for some reason the crypto market cap in and of itself is very much alive. Plus it's interesting that crypto was born out of the 2008 financial crisis and people wanting more control over their assets, so if anything I would think it would be more socially relevant now than ever.

[–] Simoto@electricrequiem.com 8 points 1 year ago

@peanuts4life@beehaw.org It's called a bear market. Every 3-4 years, it's the same thing. Patience...​:blobcatthinksmart:​

[–] trent@kbin.social 8 points 1 year ago

i think the shitcoin trend and NFT shit is over, but crypto as a technology and cryptocurrency certainly isn't. I don't see BTC, ETH, XMR dying aaanytime soon, especially the former and the latter - they're gold standard on the net already. Overengineered crypto like ETH seems to be less popular now.

[–] Pyrozo007@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Crypto scams burnt up all their market, i.e. pretty much everyone who was going to get into the crypto bubble, did. You can tell because crypto went mainstream, buying stadiums and advertising through Matt Damon.

So when the bubble burst that time, there's no one left to start a new bubble with.

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[–] roulettebreaker@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Well, are MLMs dead? Audible book spamming? The nigerian prince scam? Hell, mail scams are still running to this day.

As long as there's a hook, I doubt cryptomoney scams are going to be leaving any time soon. It is rare we'll see scams of the same magnitude as before, but they'll always be around in those sorts of communities. Just a matter of principle, whenever money's involved.

You could probably go back to buying pokemon cards, though. The fact that crypto's greatest investors have a vested interest in not having their cash vanish into thin air, it's best used for it's purpose-- as currency-- unless another FTX fumbles the bag.

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[–] FaceDeer@kbin.social 7 points 1 year ago (10 children)

I'm a fan of cryptocurrencies, and I would dearly love for the "speculative investment scam" aspect of it to be dead. It's been a massive drag on the technology's reputation for many years, preventing it from being used for all kinds of applications that would really benefit from some form of cryptocurrency integration. Unfortunately even if the "speculative investment scam" aspect dies the bad reputation will linger, so hopefully those applications will find ways to sneak it in where useful without drawing too much attention.

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[–] negativenull@negativenull.com 7 points 1 year ago

Too many scams. Too many ads advertising companies who ended up being scams as well. The pivot to NFTs was short-lived (because they were scams). The high-profile exchanges (FTX et al) going belly up, and the their founders in jail.

[–] tyfi@wirebase.org 7 points 1 year ago

Mid-bear-cycle. It'll be back in a year or two.

[–] VeeSilverball@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Not dead, just sleeping. It's a tougher, higher interest-rate market which cuts out a lot of the gambling behavior. I remain invested but my principle has shifted away from the financial and trad-economic terms to this:

Blockchains are valuable where they secure valuable information. Therefore, if a blockchain adds more valuable information, it becomes more valuable.

And that's it. You don't have to introduce markets and trading to make the point, but it positions those elements in a supporting role, and gets at one of the most pressing issues of today: where should our sources of truth online start? Blockchains can't solve the problems of false sensation, reasoning or belief, but they fill in certain technical gaps where we currently rely on handing over custody to someone's database and hoping nothing happens or they're too big to fail. It's just a matter of aligning the applications towards the role of public good, and the air is clear for that right now.

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[–] worfamerryman@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In the US each time crypto is traded it needs to be reported.

I got free crypto from Coinbase. Then sent it to a wallet, then sold it. So each transaction needed to be reported. It’s too troublesome to be worth it.

Also, if I buy crypto, they have a week hold before I can move it. My idea was to buy crypto in country A and sell it in country B to quickly transfer money between the two countries I live in. Also it would help me beat the bank fees.

But the 7 day hold kinda defeats the purpose of quickly transferring money.

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[–] big_large_smile@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

It's definitely not dead. Market cycles come and go. It's just a matter of time until the next round.

[–] Hirom@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cryptography? No it's not, any more than math is dead.

Cryptocurrency? I don't know.

[–] Veraticus@lib.lgbt 5 points 1 year ago

This is good for Bitcoin.

[–] meldroc@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (7 children)

I'm glad I never got into cryptocurrency. For all intents & purposes, it might as well be Monopoly money.

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[–] mosthated@feddit.nl 5 points 1 year ago

I don't think it is dead, but the hype certainly seems to be over. It is important to realize that as long as the crypto value trend is strongly linked to value of other commodities, it is still being treated as an investment, rather than a currency. Increasing the places where crypto can be actually used to pay will allow for unlinking crypto from being an investment to a currency. I guess there most people are currently not interested in that as much, which I think is unfortunate.

[–] shortwavesurfer@monero.town 5 points 1 year ago (9 children)

I use crypto for its real intention, as money. I buy my groceries with crypto and pay most of my bills in crypto on a monthly basis. Crypto itself is not a problem. Its the FTX's and Mt Gox's of the world trying to graft old banking norms onto crypto that is the majority of the problem. "not your keys, not your coins." Exchanges are like gas station bathrooms, you go in, do your business, and get the heck out. You dont just hang around.

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[–] Stellario@pawb.social 5 points 1 year ago

Crypto is dead, long live bitcoin.

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