NFL

Cowboys in 2015 when Tony Romo was hurt

2020 Eagles OL had a lot of injuries and inexperienced players, and a lot of week to week shifting around to cover for that, but according to PFF they were still one of the better units on the season, and Kelce played 16 games, which always helps

and Carson Wentz still shit his pants that spectacularly

Jimmy Clausen 2010 Panthers Brodie Croyle 2007 Chiefs

This site has the Falcons at number 3 so I'm going to go with them https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-week-9-2023

I know it doesn’t really count but the Cowboys Brandon Weeden season.

Dak Prescott every year?

Us in 2019, though it isn't fair to call Brisket "terrible" per se

Not a season long, but Marcus Mariota in 2019 had a top 5 OL and played bad enough to be benched

Christian Ponder had some good o-lines

Mark Sanchez used to have great O-Line his first 2 seasons with the Jets and still posted very average numbers. He did get them to the playoffs though but mainly because of their great D.

Browns have had a pretty good Olines through the years with absolutely terrible QBs. I think both things can happen but it just depends.

The 2020 Pats had a top 5 offensive line and Cam threw for 8 TDs and 10 Ints.

It doesn't even sound like these are two differing viewpoints. One doesn't really (fully) relate to the other.

2021 Colts

2009 Jets.

A little of both is true.

In theory, a Top 5 line is gonna keep your guy protected e Long enough for someone to eventually get open, or find a hole to pick up some yards.

Conversely, a Top 5 QB finds the plays in spite of his line sometimes. See the 2021 Bengals for a good revenge of this.

However both have their detriments. A bad QB still makes bad reads, gets picked off, can't move the ball. A bad line doesn't allow your guy to have time to make the game winning plays, again, see the 2021 bengals, last play of the SB :(

Alex smith was behind an o line that was named player of the week twice, and had a pretty below average season

Staley Boone Goodwin Iupati Davis(R)

Great OLs can make shit QBs look shit for longer.

2015 Cowboys had an o-line about as good as the 2014 unit and went 1-11 without Romo

Everything in football is a little of both. It is the ultimate team sport.

I think the Rams had a very good offensive line in 2018, but I remember 5 minutes into that game after Goff's first possession I KNEW the Patriots were gonna win solely because I could not see him moving the ball against that defense. That Patriots team was good but nothing particularly special. They won because they made fewer mistakes than their opponents and just were more complete.

Remember in 2021 when Jalen hurts was rolling out of clean pockets early and made his all pro line look pedestrian

2021 Browns

In Kyle Boller’s rookie season, Jamal Lewis ran for 2000 yards behind J.O., Zeus, and company.

If there’s a thread regarding top defenses being wasted by poor QB play, I still submit Kyle Boller; pick a year any will do.

I think the success of an NFL offense is too complex to boil it down to these two things. An o-line can be top 5 but is way better at run blocking than pass blocking. The OC may not be a good play caller (i.e. knows how to get a QB in rhythm, or set up bigger plays, or situational play calls). The OC may also not be a good play designer (i.e. creating ways to get star players the ball in space, playing defensive matchup rules against them). These are only a couple of things that go into it that muck up the waters for this debate.

The year Romo got hurt the cowboys had a dominant online and like a top 5 running game but the qb was so bad that they still got a top 5 pick.

Can't we just look back to Jalen Hurts' first couple years? Eagles line was top 5 but he wasn't good his first two seasons.

But in terms of who is right, I think you're both wrong in the sense that you're looking at it as a black and white answer. One size doesn't fit all in the NFL.

I agree that an amazing QB does wonders for OL stats, but the other side of the coin is that I think bad QBs can make OLs look way worse than they are. Bad QBs get themselves sacked by holding the ball too long, running into pressure, generally having bad pocket awareness (think Zach Wilson) and they also allow defenses to always have a numbers advantage in the front 7 so it makes their rushing success worse as well

You could consider our Wentz year in this category. We had a winning record but what that doesn’t show at first glance is that he randomly self destructed against against a beatable Raiders team and then the Jags who were the worst team in the league that year with the playoffs on the line. I know he had good games (knocking off AZ and NE back to back) but if you have a near 2000 yard rusher and good OLine you need to win those games

The 2023 Las Vegas Raiders

I think depending on the permutation of OL quality and QB quality you have different results:

Elite Top 5 OL and Elite QB = Super Bowl team

Elite Top 5 OL and Decent QB = makes QB look much better than they are

Elite Top 5 OL and bad QB = QB looks a bit better than they are, makes OL look much worse

Decent OL and Elite QB = OL looks amazing

Decent OL and Decent QB = your average middling team’s situation

Decent OL and bad QB = QB makes decent OL look terrible, most fans of teams with bad QBs always also claim their OL is terrible

Bad OL and elite QB = OL looks fine

Bad OL and decent QB = OL makes QB look terrible, I think this is the cause for most of the guys who look terrible early in their careers and succeed on a new team

Bad OL and Bad QB = 2023 Jets offense

The Chiefs O Line in the late 90s and early 2000s may be the greatest ever and their best QB was Trent Green.

The Browns have had very good O lines over the years, but with the revolving door at QB and less than stellar defense it didn’t typically translate to wins.

Neither.

The Browns in 2014/2015 had Joe Thomas, Alex Mack, Joel Bitonio and Mitchell Schwartz. That's one of the best collections of talent I've seen on one line. Thomas is a HoF. Mack got a couple of ridiculous contracts. Bitonio was Thomas redux in just showing up every week and doing a good job keeping his QB upright, including two first team All-Pros. Schwartz won a SB with the Chiefs and was a first team All-Pro. Greco is... definitely a name I'd believe existed (sorry John, I'm definitely not as familiar with your work).

Nine first team and eleven second team All-Pros between them all.

The QBs they blocked for in 2014 and 2015:

• Hoyer
• Manziel
• Shaw
• Josh McCown
• Davis

I think that's as comprehensive disproving of both theories as possible.

IDK, but there is an old adage that good teams almost never have bad offensive lines, and bad teams almost never have good offensive lines.

By and large, I've found that to be true, with a few exceptions here and there. But it's generally true.

2020 Patriots

Imo it’s less flexible on the O-line side. A great QB doesn’t really inflate O-line numbers because they’re still going to have QB pressures, etc, regardless of whether the QB is good enough to bail them out and make plays when pressured.

They’re more tied when you have a QB like Carson Wentz, who will hold onto the ball as long as it takes to either make a play or get sacked.

Doesn't match your question since the line wasn't good, but the first two years Kyler Murray made our O-line look so much worse by running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage. He added double digit sacks to purely because he didn't learn that he should throw the ball away before running out of bounds if he's behind the line of scrimmage.

Quincy Carter

2008 Titans probably qualify. 13-3 record while managing to allow Kerry Collins to be sacked 8 times! He only threw 12 TDs to 7 INTs though, while CJ and Lendale White combined for 2k yards and 24 TDs.

Dallas Cowboys with Romo and again with Dak

The Cowboys come to mind.

Favre in 2005-2006.

1984 Bears . Fooled people into thinking Jim McMahon good.