this post was submitted on 06 Aug 2023
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Fuck Cars

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A place to discuss problems of car centric infrastructure or how it hurts us all. Let's explore the bad world of Cars!

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[–] LouNeko@lemmy.world 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

Fuck cobblestone.

This comment was written by the bicycle gang.

[–] The_v@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It also sucks for those of us with bad ankles and knees. Almost as bad as sand. All I see on those pictures is pain.

[–] LouNeko@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

They are also extremely slippery when wet or frozen. So add a lawsuit to the pain as well.

[–] Default_Defect@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yeah, looking at one of those is making my ankle hurt.

[–] Nisciunu@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I'm wondering if they feel as horrible on a fully suspended bike. I'm also commenting something just because.

[–] LouNeko@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

They maybe feel less horrible, but the vibration screws up your bike.

[–] garden_boi@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

There are workarounds to get cobblestone streets to work. In Groningen, Netherlands, I've seen cozy cobblestone streets which had a 50cm (1½ feet?) wide and very even brick strip in the center for bicycles. Looks and works great and it is an easy retrofit for historic cobblestone.

[–] M1ster2@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (5 children)

So, is the community against all cars? Or just the ones for cities? I went to LA last month to see my brother and we went to this nice area that had blocked the street off permanently and all the restaurants and businesses had taken over the road. I. Fucking. Loved. It. All the extra space was great. So in city life, I completely get it.

That being said... I am a car person. I have an MR2 turbo I love to death. I have a lifted F250 (I grew up on a farm in a small shithole town in SC. I know I'm considered bad here but eh, the Kia Sorento isn't going to pull the dump trailer or the tractor and the lift is because I'm 8 at heart and still smile driving it around) and a heavily modified Jeep Cherokee I play off-road with. Plus my daily Honda Civic. Cars have souls and driving is a sense of freedom I am addicted to. I can promise you 100% of "grown ups" (age is subjective here) with loud cars isn't to impress anyone else, it's for us. I won't even drive my MR2 at certain times to make sure I don't disturb anyone and when I'm around a populated area, I shift at low RPM and keep the noise down a lot, but away from everyone in bum fuck rural America, that exhaust note is all for me.

I get you hate cars, I even agree for the most part. But does that mean ALL cars? Am I bad here?

[–] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

Biggest thing this community is against is car dependency. Cities should not be designed around cars as default, to the exclusion of everything and everyone else. It actually benefits car people, as I'm pretty sure you don't want people like me -- someone who sucks at and hates driving -- clogging up the roads.

There's this observation -- the Downs-Thomson Paradox -- that notes that the main thing reduces average traffic is not building more car infrastructure; it's making better and faster alternatives to cars. When things are built more densely and walkable, when public transit is fast and convenient, you see traffic drop precipitously, as most people just want the fastest, most convenient option for getting places.

That said, I think most in this community don't really like cars clogging up city streets, due to the simple fact that they are loud, dangerous, and polluting. My ideal city would have park-and-ride at the city limits, then electric microcars (more like glorified golf carts) in the city for those use cases that still need cars, like first responders, physically handicapped people who can't walk/bike, etc. Rural areas would obviously still need cars, but even they could probably benefit from having better transit access.

Personally, I and most people in this community don't view you as the enemy so long as you're not an asshole driver. We view the systemic disinvestment in public transit and car-centric urban design as the primary enemies. After all, how can one blame someone who is just trying to live their life in a broken system? Hate the game, not the player!

[–] Venat0r@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I think the goal is more to break car dependance, and end up in a similar state to places like Amsterdam. In Amsterdam people still have cars, and there's still a healthy car culture in the Netherlands . You just aren't required to have a car to live.

[–] oddityoverseer@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

My opinion:

Trucks used pragmatically for farming or legit hauling stuff is perfectly fine.

Cars used in true rural areas are also fine, because by definition, they haven't been developed yet, so there's pretty much no other way to get there.

But in populated areas (not just "cities" but also suburbs and other areas that are not truly rural and extremely spread out), spaces should be designed for walkability, and have good mass transit options. If a neighborhood is being built, put a small grocery store right next to it, so all those people can get groceries without driving. And put a bus stop near it, so they can get to other areas of town they actually need to go.

Cars aren't going away entirely. They serve a specific purpose. But they're overused.

[–] EinfachUnersetzlich@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago (2 children)

In my mind yes, because of environmental concerns.

[–] happy_camper@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Me using my 1200 kg econobox to reach destinations that public transport doesn't give a hoot about is doing absolutely nothing to the planet compared to a rich person's private jet, or cobalt mining, or manufacturing and shipping all the cheap plastic stuff people buy that they don't even need from China etc.

I am all for walkable cities, I love my hometown where walking and cycling is not only possible, but infinitely better than driving. Yet I can coexist with cars in the same spaces. But I have so far seen absolutely zero viable arguments against car ownership. It's a part of our personal freedoms that's just more lucrative to take away than to fix the systematic problems of the world.

The main issue here? I'm not willing to give up my freedoms, and the rich fucks running this shitshow have no incentive to lower their profits.

This community's counterpart on reddit started out great, but it quickly transformed into an extremist echo chamber of idealists that are painfully out of touch with the real world.

[–] M1ster2@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

Am I an environmentalist? You are damn right. I grew up on a farm and in nature. It's amazing and must be protected at all costs. But, do I think I personally contribute anything worth noting to that? No. If corporations and the ultra wealthy got their shit together, everyone in America could be rolling coal in their diesel pick ups and it wouldn't matter. THAT DOES NOT MEAN WE SHOULD DO THAT, but I will not feel guilty for contributing a drop to a flood done by the top 0.1%. Me personally, I think the whole carbon footprint thing is great, but it's pushed on the masses to try and be like "you guys better drive clean cars and recycle!" as their crude oil burning cargo ships and mass growth and slaughter of our fellow creatures on this planet do most of the damage. Everyone should be held accountable, but at what point is someone like me sacrificing something that gives us a little joy in our miserable little lives for at best, at absolutely best a wishful thought? My MR2 and Truck and Jeep make me happy, I won't feel guilty for enjoying them.

[–] SuperSpruce@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago

The way I see it is that I love cars and driving but hate car dependency. People who don't like that shouldn't be forced to get a car. This leads to less bad drivers due to people merely putting up with driving rather than focusing on it, meaning a safer world for pedestrians, bicyclists, motorcyclists, and other drivers.

[–] glassware@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago (1 children)

People make fun of the "new towns" planned and built by post-war socialist governments in the UK, but I spent some delivering leaflets in Stevenage recently and it's honestly heaven for pedestrians.

There are roads for cars, but they all connect to the back of homes. The front of each house leads into a wide pedestrian / cycle path, and the paths connect via tunnels underneath the roads. I would walk hours each day delivering leaflets and never see a car.

[–] Fried_out_Kombi@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

That sounds lovely. Usually "post-war" is associated with car-dependent design, but it's nice to hear about post-war designs are are good, actually.

[–] baseless_discourse@mander.xyz 12 points 1 year ago

I think these are used to called "streets", now roads are streets...

[–] AKADAP@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If you want people to abandon cars, make the alternatives better. Unfortunately I never see that happening, I only see attempts to make car travel worse. I hate public transport with a passion, because it is so bad. When I was commuting, it took an hour each way to go 13 miles, but if I tried to take public transport, it would have taken two hours each way, including 2 miles of walking on a state highway with no shoulder and no sidewalks. Would have had to take a bus to the light rail, and change trains at least once. This light rail shared the same road that cars use, so it was subject to all of the same traffic issues that cars suffered.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Due to induced demand and other factors, constricting automobile traffic improves public transit and makes getting around by transit and taking a car better in the long run.

Yes, in the short term it would seem negative (30 minutes by car vs. 2hr becomes 1hr vs. 2hr), but more people using transit would spur investment into transit. This would start with better allocation of bus routes to more directly go to desired destinations. In the medium term it would be making other areas easier to use alternatives such as walking and bike paths along state routes like the one you'd take. In the long term it would make good sense to invest in build commuter rail lines into and out of the city, which would be better funded by fares, private and government investment. All of this would reduce traffic from cars in the city as well, without needing to increase the roadway maintenance budget from having bigger roads.

The other thing is that if the light-rail road became pedestrian only, it would have right-of-way through the entire route and wouldn't have to wait for the cars. Pedestrians wouldn't block a moving LRV (or they would at their peril).

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[–] Chadus_Maximus@lemm.ee 7 points 1 year ago

...so we're getting sidedrives then?

[–] HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

YES YES YES YES!

I walk in the middle of the road everyday to confuse ans annoy car drivers.

Free the streets!

[–] HughJanus@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So everyone should walk everywhere? Not even bikes or scooters?

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