this post was submitted on 23 May 2025
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name
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People REALLY don't like Pippin, for... "reasons".😉
They get their Peregrin Took? Why are you stealing falcons off of Starfleet officers?
They get their... Second breakfast?
Do they get breakfast on starships? I mean, timekeeping was never quite explained. Sure, there are stardates, but how is "morning" and "evening" defined in a place that's operating outside a system with daylight reference points by default?
Or is it like it was (I guess, I'm not expert on this) from the age of exploration where time on ships was into watches and you get time specifications like "three bells into [x] watch"? A shift system with Alpha to Delta Shifts as mentioned in Lower Decks (both the TNG episode and the series) might lend itself to such a system.
But during many shows, clock times like "sevon o'clock" are given as well, but what's the reference then?
It's established that Picard hates fancy breakfasts.
While there may be certain ports of call for ships, I think the Stardate system works off the timezones of Starfleet headquarters in San Francisco.
ship time would be synced to a broader federation time; though in ST:Ent there was a hint that its considered "polite" to adjust ship time to match planetary standard time when entering orbit.
In any case, there's probably a standard rotation of shifts similar to submarines, essentially running off mission time. Though, I would imagine that "day" shift crews were larger with more non-essential staffing (for example; the science departments. it's probably not common you need a botonist on duty 24/7,)
Adjusting ship time to standard planetary time is a weird way to phrase how this would actually be accomplished; in order to make ship time broadly sync up with planetary time, you'd have to park it in an orbit that puts you at the equivalent of the solar day planet-side.
Depending on the length of the mission and the difference in the length of day, you would either want to regularize your orbit to keep the crew's 24 hour schedule in parity with the equivalent solar day relative to the planet, or keep them parked in a geosynchronous orbit that slowly falls out of sync with the planet-side clock.
For reasons of crew health you would not simply set your clocks to an arbitrary point on the planet's surface, because that would screw up everyone's circadian rhythms and create unsafe levels of fatigue. It would be far more professional to staff the ship around the clock so that someone's always awake and fresh. Depending on availability of personnel, you could even stagger shifts so that staffing changes are seamless.
Not really. Presumably, they’d have a planetary mean time that the planetary government runs on. For earth that would probably be Greenwich mean time or San Diego time (federation/starfleet location on earth.) regardless, they’re going to a planet to meet with people. There’s going to be a standard time they’re using, whatever that is.
As for circadian rhythms, given enough time the crew would never notice. It’s an entirely artificial cycle in an entirely artificial environment. 15-30 minutes is fine. An 8 hour a/b/c shift could be rotated to b/c/a in 16 days with 30 minutes of time-shift per day, and by doing -30 minutes of time shift to c/b/a.
A 12 hour shift could be completely flipped in 24 days, as another example. And while more disruptive, you could probably push it to 2 hours a day and be okay, reducing the overall time even further.
As for things coming up, you see in the show Picard and the other officers/main crew getting woken up and taking over. And for diplomatic things, it’s always going to be the captain or the diplomatic staff no matter what time of “day”. They’re not going to let the junior officer make first contact if they can at all help it.
The only people active on the graveyard watch are basically essential ship crew and the guy making sure that the experimental doohickey doesn’t explode, maybe a sawbones in medical in case the doohickey does anyway.
In TNG it’s usually Data that’s in command, but sometimes it was given to junior officers who needed command experience and nothing was supposed to be going on, with Data (or whoever) summoning Picard whenever something comes up.
This is similar to how a submarine is run, btw.
I didn't know that about subs, interesting. Knowing sleep deprivation causes impairment on par with driving drunk I'd have assumed it was more of a concern.
Huh. Interesting. Everyone here is providing more deep background and hard-earned wisdom than any ten forward thread deserves. Do you flip over the upside down turtle? Is Kim Jong Un an idiot Y/N?
ship time would be synced to a broader federation time
But what's that time's point of reference? And is it really feasible, given that time is relative?
for example; the science departments. it's probably not common you need a botonist on duty 24/7
No, not necessary. But given that the human body doesn't experience a natural day-night-cycle and nobody would actually have night shifts, you could better distribute the use of resources like lab equipment.
To the first, whatever the federation wants.
It’s be like syncing modern militaries up to GMT or whatever time that military decides. (Probably, they call it “stardate”)
When I tell people to get on zoom at 8 am GMT, everyone knows what time it is even though one place it might be 2 am and another 9 pm.
For relativity, being inside the warp field apparently simplifies that since the ship isn’t moving at FTL speeds. It’s handwaving, but whatever. We could also just constantly update clocks with a reference time like we do with GPS satellites (because those wouldn’t work if we didn’t, heh.)
As for the second, I suspect the limitation is rather in the space available for experimentation rather than the actual equipment. Look at all of the experiments Wesley did in his bedroom. Remember, they can probably fabricate any equipment they need.
The other limitation, potentially, is on the crew available to do it, which won’t matter here.
In any case, research is collaborative. Having more people on the same schedule means they can collaborate better and more effectively. It doesn’t need to be all-or-nothing, but you’re going to have lopsided rotations.
As a side though, the physical day night cycle would be achieved by lighting in different parts of the ship- it becomes day as you get up and go to work with the lighting gradually getting brighter and night as you leave.
Rather than changing that and running into conflicts; the halls just stay at one setting and the main spaces are brighter while crew quarters darker. That’s not exactly what seen on screen, but it’s how I’d do it. “Day-” “night-“ then becomes an analog for which shift is which, to distinguish them. (We could also go with a/b/c/d or whatever. Submarine shifts in the USN are some what whonky, but highly researched.)
But what’s that time’s point of reference? And is it really feasible, given that time is relative?
It might be just for that, as a point of reference. If 5 different ships from 5 different sectors running on 5 different timezones, how would they agree on a time to meet at a particular location? The Stardate could be just a generalized point of reference for time and maybe it's up to the ship to determine their own shift schedule and "local time"
"breakfast" = taking a "break" from your "fast" aka "not eating". So... technically then, every meal is breakfast! 😋 Seconds, thirds, whatever you got!
So what im gathering is 4th breakfast is indeed an option
Hrm, I dunno... let's test this theory!? Vigorously and often!
Ten Forward seems to be open around the clock and you can always create food with the replicators too. And we see the officers work in shifts. So I assume "breakfast" is the meal before your shift starts and "dinner" is after it is over. Other than that, there is probably no "meal time" as such.
We mostly follow the bridge crew around the captain but presumably there is a whole other crew of officers for the "night" shift. (In fact, there is an episode when Troi has the helm for that shift.)
Pip. In. Fuck you. Goddamnit.
😑