this post was submitted on 22 Nov 2023
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Like the title says, I'm new to self hosting world. πŸ˜€ while I was researching, I found out that many people dissuaded me to self host email server. Just too complicated and hard to manage. What other services that you think we should just go use the currently available providers in the market and why? πŸ™‚thank you

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[–] gpzj94@alien.top 4 points 10 months ago
[–] SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 3 points 10 months ago

In my opinion, cloud storage for (zero knowledge) backup. Your backup strategy should include a diversity of physical locations. I had a house fire a few years ago. Luckily, my data drives survived, but if they hadn't, my cloud backup would've been invaluable.

[–] HTTP_404_NotFound@alien.top 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Don't host your own email server.

Just trust me.

[–] KN4MKB@alien.top 3 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Meh, been doing it for 5 years now with minimal issues. Had one issue come up where my domain was flagged as malicious, but was solved in a few days and some emails to security vendors.

I think it's important that those who can, and are educated enough to keep it running properly do host their own. Hosting your own email should be encouraged if capable because it helps reduce the monopoly, and keep a little bit of power for those who want to retain email privacy.

[–] rad2018@alien.top 2 points 10 months ago

I agree with KN4MKB. I've been hosting my own mail server for decades. Not one issue. I use that in lieu of a mail service provider (Google immediately comes to mind), as their EULA service agreement will tell you that - since you're using their service, on their servers - anything goes. Read the fine print on Gmail, and you'll see. πŸ˜‰

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[–] Im1Random@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

I did it anyway some time ago and I'm really happy with it. I'm using my own email addresses for absolutely anything by now.

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[–] bulletproofkoala@alien.top 3 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Okay I understand that email hosting is bad for SENDING email , but what about only RECEIVING email , isn’t it a good idea to keep my stuff private ? I rarely send personal emails, and like to avoid my data being used for marketing purposes Is that bad to have smtp imap open on dynamic ip address ? Just asking your opinion

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[–] No-Needleworker-9890@alien.top 3 points 10 months ago

Passwords:
-> You want to have immediat access to them, even if your house burns down

Notes:
-> You want to be able to read the documentation how to fix your selfhosted service, even when your selfhosted services are down

Public Reverse proxy:
-> A reverse proxy is only as safe as the applications behind. And NO, most selfhosted-applications are not hardened or had security audits
(reverse proxy with a forward authentication proxy is something different)

[–] Vogete@alien.top 3 points 10 months ago (1 children)

A password manager because if anything goes wrong, you'll be completely screwed.

What you SHOULD absolutely self host though is a password manager, so you can be in control of your most sensitive data.

Regarding email, I think everyone should absolutely self host it, but it's less and less viable in this google/Microsoft duopoly world. But ideally everyone would self host it. The reason why people advise against it really comes down to lack of real competition, and the two tech giants dictating how we violate every RFC possible.

[–] pogky_thunder@alien.top 3 points 10 months ago

A password manager because if anything goes wrong, you'll be completely screwed.

What you SHOULD absolutely self host though is a password manager, so you can be in control of your most sensitive data.

Wot?

[–] rgnissen202@alien.top 2 points 10 months ago

I'd say backups. At least it shouldn't be only local. I follow the rule of threes: two local copies and one off site with backblaze. Yeah, it ties up a not insignificant amount of disk space I could use for other things, but dammit, I'm not loosing my wedding photos, important system configurations, etc.

[–] shrugal@lemm.ee 2 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

People saying email, look into using external SMTP servers as relays. Your domain most likely comes with at least one email account with SMTP access. You can use that as a relay to send personal/business emails from your server using the provider's reputable IP addresses.

[–] GolemancerVekk@alien.top 2 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Don't self-host email SMTP or public DNS. They're hard to set up properly, hard to maintain, easy to compromise and end up used in internet attacks.

Don't expose anything directly to the internet if you're not willing to constantly monitor the vulnerability announcements, update to new releases as soon as they come out, monitor the container for intrusions and shenanigans, take the risk that the constant updates will break something etc. If you must expose a service use a VPN (Tailscale is very easy to set up and use.)

Don't self-host anything with important data that takes uber-geek skills to maintain and access. Ask yourself, if you were to die suddenly, how screwed would your non-tech-savvy family be, who can't tell a Linux server from a hot plate? Would they be able to keep functioning (calendar, photos, documents etc.) without constant maintenance? Can they still retrieve their files (docs, pics) with only basic computing skills? Can they migrate somewhere else when the server runs down?

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[–] paulsmithkc@alien.top 2 points 10 months ago

Primary backups

[–] Server22@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Email. I always recommend AWS SES. Use it at as an SMTP relay and any internal services gets restricted access through IAM.

[–] timawesomeness@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Internet-accessible authoritative DNS nameserver(s) (unless you have a completely static public IP).

[–] Tivin-i@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Any public facing service that other (services) depend on should not be running on a public IP (especially ones that translate addresses, and ones you have to manually update).

You could run an authoritative NS "hidden" where only your secondary NS can reach out to for zone transfers. You could also escape having a public IP if you configure rsync or scripts to update secodary host files on every IP change.

[–] audero@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Password manager. While some may cache on your client devices, by and large if your server goes down, no passwords.

[–] Cart0gan@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Not necesarily. If you self host SyncThing and use it to synchronise your password database across devices (for example KeePassXC's .kdbx file) only the synchronisation goes down with your server.

[–] tech2but1@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Same with Bit/vaultwarden, all clients grab a copy of the vault from the server when they sync so if the server is offline all clients still "just work".

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[–] JaJe92@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (7 children)

Clearly opening RDP port on internet. NEVER.

[–] vkapadia@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

What is wrong with that? Don't they still need correct credentials to connect?

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[–] FlockSystem@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

What do you mean by "clearly". Open RDP without password protection?

I often use RDP to access my desktop Windows 10.

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[–] borg286@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Push notifications.

It is fine hosting a service that gets requests then talks to FCM or the iOS version. But a service that one's phone stays connected to 24/7 is really hard, and not kill one's battery.

[–] Accomplished-Lack721@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The login page to your NAS.

[–] KN4MKB@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (3 children)

If your NAS is properly updated, and SSL is used, then the login screen it just as safe as any other web app with regular updates. I would ask why someone would want that.

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[–] Cart0gan@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Not really an option when I'm providing file hosting services to a bunch of my friends.

[–] Diligent_Ad_9060@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Some generic purpose LLM probably.

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[–] ProfessionalAd3026@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (3 children)
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[–] sk1nT7@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Tor exit node. Too much legal stuff.

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[–] r4nchy@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)
[–] HecateRaven@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I'm doing it on a bm I rent for 10 years now without issues with spf, dmarc, dkim and everything from scratch (no docker bloat)

[–] TBT_TBT@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Docker is the antithesis of β€žbloatβ€œ.

[–] Drwankingstein@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Docker is horrid for duplication. Unless you use a filesystem with good deduplication, docker can hurt a lot on your storage. and even then it still can just not work often due to due to already deduplicated extent stuff

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[–] Carilion@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago
[–] netvip3r@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

If self hosting from home.. email servers

At home, your IP is likely blacklisted and/or your provider has blocked the necessary ports. Not to mention the layers of potential headaches dealing with potential spam block dbs, especially if you don't own your IP.

You can of course do custom setups allowing you to skirt these restrictions, but can sometimes be a bit complicated and typically involve non-traditional customizations.

[–] miteycasey@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago
[–] dgibbons0@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Personally I don't think it's worth hosting recursive dns resolvers. Most of the options with ad blocking are single points of failure and when it breaks the household acceptance factor is just too low.

[–] Vogete@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Just....set up two RPIs with Pihole instead of one? Chances are your router can have a fallback DNS. Sure, you have to update the rules in both places, but honestly it's not a big deal, and you now have redudancy.

I'm running 2 powerdns recursors and authoritative servers, and 2 piholes (long story why so many), and none of them have failed on me so far, and when I took one of them offline, I didn't notice anything because the other took over. And if anything REALLY fails, I'll just switch my router back to using cloudflare or Google or quad9 temporarily, and at least Internet access will be restored so people can at least browse the internet.

Pihole also has an API and a home Assistant integration, so you can create an AdBlock toggle switch for others, in case it blocks something and they need immediate access. Not ideal, but it's a doable workaround.

This is really something that's super easy to self host, and mitigate if something goes wrong. Especially since that commercial router is already a single point of failure for most households.

[–] tech2but1@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Chances are your router can have a fallback DNS.

Chances are it can't. You can probably set multiple DNS servers (anywhere, not just routers) but they aren't a primary/secondary sort of deal. Most traffic might be weighted towards the first one in a list but you will find traffic still hits the others.

[–] xerker@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Aside from other stuff mentioned here about email. I always assumed I'd become a target for spam that I'd have a harder time filtering out to the point it stops being worth it to have a custom email address.

That and I can almost guarantee I would end up screwing up the backup of my inbox and losing everything rending the whole endeavour pointless.

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[–] Cart0gan@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Child porn, obviously

[–] Drwankingstein@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

I know this might be a bit controversial, but IMO a beginner should not self host passwords, and at least not the sole backup for photos and videos. I think self hosting them in general is good, but until you know for sure, "Ok, my back-up system is working fine, even if my stuff goes down, I have little downtime for bringing it back up".

If you can't say for sure this is you, Don't self host your passwords, bitwarden is great and encrypted so I highly doubt issues will be had there. Also make sure to use a different/seperate hosting service for pictures. I personally recommend using google drive + rsync since rsync can encrypt all your pictures.

I've seen more then a couple people fail the backup part, even when they thought they were fine before hand.

[–] bbyboi@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago
[–] adriy32@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Mail is a waste of time, and it's take the risk to don't receive important mail in time.

[–] RedFive1976@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago

Mail server or anything using RDP.

[–] therealsimontemplar@alien.top 1 points 10 months ago (3 children)

I’ve seen far too many compromised Wordpress installations to ever consider installing it in my home dmz.

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