this post was submitted on 27 Nov 2023
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So after Tin t2 and hd599 I went ahead and bought Campfire Andromeda 2020 and Senheiser IE600 and sort of skipped the whole mid fi stage.

I really like both of these but it seems from crinacle and everyone who reviews them the Airpods pro 2 and Samsung buds pro 2 both come pretty close and even do better in some aspects than these 2 I have.

Now I'm not rich or anything but music meant a lot to me last few years so I just went ahead and bought a couple of near endgame stuff knowing id end there eventually. I still wonder if I wasted a whole lot money for no reason.

I really like both the iems I have but they're obviously not without flaws, from thin bass on Andro to slightly sharp treble that needs to be eqd on ie600 and it's terrible cable. Maybe by next generation of products tws would start outclassing flagship iems.

As an aside, what's your favourite albums on Andros or ie600?

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[–] 42dudes@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

The only purchases I regret are random cheaper ones, like Monoprice Modern Retros, and about half a dozen sub-20$ KZ's. It adds up to maybe 150$ though, which is the same as taking a hit on a single pair of prosumer bluetooth headphones. Overall, not bad.

I've settled in nicely with a 6XX and some s12s as my best headphone and IEM. I've got side-grades for different use-cases, but with the kind of deals you can get for speakers these days, for the the same price as some LCD's or ZMF's, I'd rather invest in stereo equipment, which I believe has a higher ceiling for fidelity than cans.

[–] AntOk463@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I went down the same route. I wanted planars so I got the Sundara, I didn't like them so I sold them and got the Arya Stealth. It was a great decision (except the fact that they had a massive price drop months after I bought mine). I really like the Arya and never felt the need to upgrade from them, they sound as technical as they get. The same thing happened with closed backs, I had the DT770 and wanted something better, I considered the AKG K371, the Meze 99 Neo, and the Focal Elegia, but went straight to Drop AEON Closed X as endgame closed backs for me.

The only fomo I have is Focal headphones and their bass response, I'm wondering if the Elegia or Celestee would have been better than the AEON Closed X. I want to try Focal headphones.

[–] Sarin10@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

how do the aeons compare to the 770s?

[–] CaptnKrksNippls@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

For closed back bass the radiance would probably be the best choice from Focal. The Elegia can be very thin sounding and quite shouty in comparison, did not like it at all.

[–] AntOk463@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do the Radiance compare to the Celestee

[–] Jmo04@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Might as well answer this since I have experienced both haha. I did not like either but a lot had to do with the amount they cost for the performance you get. The celestee to me sounded thin, flat and lacking bass. I wasn’t even sure what kind of music would sound good on it to make it worth its msrp. The radiance I got was boomy but the bass had like no texture or definition to it and the vocals sound plain wrong (even my coworker who knows nothing about headphones picked this out without me mentioning my opinions). However it was so comfy and if it was MUCH cheaper I would definitely have kept it.

However, I recently talked to resolve from the headphone show about my issue with them and apparently they have a fucked up pad variance that can mess up the bass drastically.

So ya…

[–] AntOk463@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Wow, people described them as some of the best headphones with the signature Focal bass response, I didn't know they had this many issues. Now I'm happy I got the AEON Closed X instead. The way you described them, my open back AKG headphones with a low shelf filter gave better bass than the Focals.

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Wonder if you wasted money? Here is how you fix this janky headphone issue in this janky industry once and for all!

Instructions below to my fellow music enjoyers:

Headphone Tuning and Calibration Procedureinstructions:Do a google search for the following software:1)download equalizer apo2)download peace eq3) go to program files, select equalizer apo, then select configurator4)select the stereo headphones5)Select trouble shooting options click the checkmark6)set as efx experimental or mfx experimental7)reboot8)open peace eq and click the green plus + to add bands, add the maximum number of bands(32), play some music and adjust some of the bands to make sure the sound is changing and that it has activated properly,( the default value for the bands will be 1000 but we will be changing them with custom frequencies after the calibration.)If the music is not changing when you adjust the default eq bands repeat the steps up to 7 again but this time if you selected sfx, select mfx instead and try again9)to make a custom band with custom frequency put in the frequency at the top and press enter10) frequencies under 100 are your bass frequencies, frequencies over 1000 that you lower will also increase bass and the fullness of the sound. Sub bass frequencies tend to be frequencies from 7-50 and mid bass frequencies tend to be 50-100, most subwoofers sweet spot is 50.Enhancing bass:

https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

Set volume to 100% and play the tone generator each frequency sequence(or hz) by 1,from frequency 7-80 until you find the 6 most resonant sub bass/mid bass response frequencies. Mark them into peace eq and hit enter. For example you are going to pick the 6 most resonant frequencies and mark them down, the most significant responses in between. You have now selected the bass frequencies your hearing device is most responsive to and now have the keys, try finding the keys in every segment of 10 frequency notches aka “Hertz”. So from 10 to 20 if 14 had the most rumble, that’s the key you mark into the eq band. If you want a smoother calibration go for 5 frequencies under 50 and 5 over 50 in between 50 and 100, so you end up with 10 keys, and 10 medians. Since the keys are twice as responsive generally we tune with a ratio of 2:1 , if I boost the median by 1 I boost the key by 2. The median frequencies smooth the rest of the string.Hunting for the high tinnitus inducing “bastard frequencies” that unbalance the new alteration to the bass: Set volume to 50% and mark down the most irritating frequencies, from 300-17000hz) these we want to eliminate and smooth out to balance the bass. One option is to go in segments of every 500 or every 1000, find the most irritating pitch every 1000 notches in the frequency, 1000,2000,3000,4000,5000,6000,7000,8000, etc up to the max of the headphones which is usually around 16,000 human ear has a hard time hearing frequencies over 17,000, these are your keys, the median frequencies should still be kept to balance the sound but aren’t necessary this would result in fine-tuning. For example if frequency 1232 in the range of 1000-2000 stands out the most mark this down, this is a key frequency that the hearing device is most responsive to along this frequency band.We are making a segment of 32, although in find enhancing 8 of the most resonant bass frequencies and reducing 8 of the most resonant high frequencies does the job.Balancing the hearing device properly allows you to enjoy a better balance at a lower volume which protects your hearing! Silent frequencies cause hearing loss and are toxic. If I only increase volume and do not tune/calibrate the hearing device I will also increase the toxic frequencies along with the bass.Experiment with the key frequencies having a 2-1 ratio for bass enhancement or a 75% or 50% boost ratio and the high frequencies the opposite.Fine tuning, comb through the frequencies and make sure they are balanced to the adjacent median frequency and the key frequency. For example I just changed 1000, so now I have to change 1230 the same ratio ive used.Tips, Master bass frequencies will be 33,50,and 83, adjust these to get a perfect mid/sub-bass blend. Another way to fine tune. This is the final step in the process.So we have our balanced bass boost calibration procedure, then we do our fine tuning then we do our master fine tuning. We are basically making a silencer for harsh frequencies and making the hearing device responsive to electronic music genres, much better for hearing, and no longer anemic.Too much punchiness to the bass means you need to reduce 83Too much sub bass means you have to reduce 33 and too much mid bass means you have to reduce 50. Balance the 3 as they are the final stage of fine-tuning the bassNow we will have to fine tune the high pitched frequencies which will be 1000,4000,and 8000, and 16,000 median means an average frequency smoothnessUnfortunately I could do a much better job if I had access to an equalizer with more than 32 bands, however I have to work within the limitations of peace which is the best EQ I could find online and am grateful for.Sadly most headphone manufacturers simply decide on a janky tuning, and this makes the headphones have a sweet spot for driver distortion at certain volumes, especially after heavy tuning, so if the procedure didn’t work, you also have to adjust the volume which is another ultra-fine-tuning step. Or if you adjust the volume, you have to readjust the fine tuning again, which to a trained and experienced ear should be very quick and usually take around a 5 second investment per 3-10 minute song which is an ok sacrifice.Your equalizer should look like thismedian strings:10,20,30,40,50Fine tuning keys example:14,25,36,44two strings smooths it out, and our most responsive calibration test frequencies for the hearing device are twice as pronouncedso i set the median half what i boosted the key by. If i boost the key by 3 DB, i boost the median string by 1.5DBdo the same thing for the treble high frequencies. Except this time instead of "boosting them" were reducing them and doing the opposite.Experiment until you reach perfection. now you know how to equalize like a professional and will have a night and day difference.Its a matter of string symmetry and once you get this right you will get your moneys worth out of the headphones as long as they are solid with capable drivers.

calibration, you find the most responsive frequencies your headphones respond to using the tone generator tool

second, you smooth them out with a median line.

simple as, you obviously can't buy a brain to follow these instructions properly, but if you do follow these instructions properly i doubt you will have to buy headphones ever again

[–] Matticus0989@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I think FOMO is something that usually happens now with certain companies. The ones that release a headphone and stop production of it just a few years later. Looking at you Fostex 🙄

[–] ext23@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The more you get sucked into reading and listening to people's opinions on gear, the more likely you are to develop FOMO. The way people talk about $1000 sound is just not the same way they talk about $50 sound, even if the $50 sound is 95% as good. I definitely fell victim to this and splurged on some TOTL IEMs. I don't necessarily regret it but I also don't think they sound 10x better than other cheaper sets. I did want to eliminate the feeling of FOMO though and I accomplished that.

FWIW I also rock the 6XX at home and the S12 Pro was the IEM I upgraded from. Both are absolutely excellent in their own right and are endgame worthy. There's no real reason to chase the dragon any further unless you have money to burn.

[–] misrej@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

How do you like the HD6xx? I’m actually not sure if I should get the 6xx or the regular 600. 6xx is quite a bit cheaper!

[–] yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Depends on what you like but for beginners the differences are very small. The HD600 is a very neutral headphone, the HD650/6XX is a slightly 'flavoured' version of the HD600. The HD600 is loved for its excelent timbre and vocals as well as its very decent resolution for the price. Most people also love it for how neutral it sounds but it does get sorta boring at some point. The HD650/XX is almost the same but adds just a bit of extra bass (+3db iirc) and has slightly reduced treble so whereas some headphones like the DT770/990 sound bright and almost piercing/fatuiging to some, the HD6XX is the exact opposite. It has a very relaxed 'warm/dark' non-offensive sound signature and in combination with the small soundstage and excellent vocal quality many people describe these headphones as intimate.

[–] misrej@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thanks for the nice explanation! So I actually own a DT770 Pro 250 Ohm right now but I want to move up a step in the audio world. The HD600’s (and the variants of that) look like a solid pick for that. You think it will be an upgrade? And if it is, then I should decide myself if I’d want a tiny bit warmer tone (6xx) or more neutral (600) right?

[–] yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Basically yeah. But I will warn you, your ears are used to a very bright headphones right now so you're going from one pretty extreme end to the other pretty extreme end of the spectrum in terms of treble. The dark HD6XX might sound wrong at first or maybe even less detailed because of the treble but you'll have to give your ears at least 2 weeks of adjusting and then go back to your old 770 and you'll be mind blown.

[–] misrej@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Ahh ye true. Thanks for the info and heads-up! Really curious how they compere and if the hd6XX’s are a step up from the 770’s.

[–] yeaboiiiiiiiiiiiiu@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Well in terms of resolution/timbre its a significant upgrade but vocals are even beter. Overall (but still in MY opinion) tge HD6X0 is a big step up from something like a beyer DT770. And as the original comment said, for many the HD650 is all you need.

[–] Mediaright@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I’ve compared the 600 to my 6xx/650s a couple times this year. The differences to me were too small to warrant me changing anything.

A fun way to characterize it is that in many songs, the lead takes center-stage on the 600, and are strong and wonderful!

On the 650s though, while the melody/lead of a piece is still strong, of course, the harmony just comes alive! Jon Hopkins “The Wider Sun” is an excellent example of this: https://youtu.be/MqKVvaCN5M8?feature=shared

So you’ll love both, the differences are tiny. For my tastes, I love the 6xx and got used to the slightly reduced treble pretty quick (about 2 weeks).

[–] Ophanil@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, sort of. I'm glad I dove into the deep end with 1k+ IEMs because now I know for a fact that I prefer my mid-fi FH7 to both all the high end and less expensive stuff I've heard. Spending the money was totally worth the certainty of my own experience, and now I'm perfectly happy with what I have now because I experimented with everything I could.

[–] SDLiu4@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

FOMO - Been there, kinda done that

Opposite of FOMO - Yes. I've gotten to a point where it ideal to demo an item(s) you're interested in, and only buying it if I like how it sounds OR if I have enough expendable income to blind purchase an item with the chance that I don't like it and never use it again or in the long term. I no longer buy (or try to) headphones because someone (e.g. reviewers) says "This is a great headphone! It's the best $$$ headphone at it's price point!" Or "This sounds better or is better than a, b and c headphone. GET THIS!"

I watch reviewers and their takes to get an idea of what I may like or maybe try something that sounds interesting and/or different than what I'm accustomed to

TL;DR If you like what you have acquired, enjoy it. Don't worry too much about other people's opinions. There are many great products out there. Some objective better than others, some people might have personal preferences. Important thing - enjoy what you buy

[–] ttdpaco@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I had to stop following FOMO with this hobby a long time ago. Every time I did, I was just fucking disappointed (with some exceptions...mainly just the Blessing 2 Dusk's.)

Focal Elear? Sounds grainy as hell and nothing like the HD6x0.f

Thieaudio tri-brids? The timbre of those EST always sounded off and grating to me - the only one I liked was the Oracle v1, and the rest, Monarch included, were just meh.

Campfire Andros (the original?) They were great...out of one dap. That wasn't made anymore. And a pain to use.

Edition XS? They sounded grating and metallic to me. More so than what was sold to me.

HD560S? I mean, they're well balanced, but the jump for 10s of dollars more to the HD6XX was just straight up better to me.

Now I sit here listening to the only non-hyped Hifiman headphone (HE1000 Stealth) that happens to be the only one I like. I could find fuck all in reliable reviews for it, and the Arya Organic (after hearing so many conflicting things about it from Joshua Valour's "It's the best" to Resolves "it's alright, but too fucking bright") FOMO did not appeal to me.

[–] entivoo@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Joshua is a good salesman but not a good reviewer.

[–] haoyuanren@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] xdamm777@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Considering $10 Panasonic ErgoFit earbuds are budget I very much consider a hundredfold increase in price “high end”.

[–] SpartanPHA@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Are you selling the Andros

[–] kokakoliaps3@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

After chasing the hobby like an idiot, the Samsung EO-IA 500 felt like a FOMO killer to me. They actually fit the ear and stay securely. The sound is good enough! Not too bright, the mids are clear (V shaped earphones never fail to disappoint) and the bass is kicking. Yeah, the Samsungs are muddy at times. But that's a small sacrifice I'm willing to take, considering that everything else is perfect.

For serious listening I have Closer Acoustics OGY speakers. It doesn't get more transparent and clear than that.

[–] SweetCans928@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Andro 2020 kind of underperforms for its price imo...I don't think it's a great representation of some of the banger IEMs you can get around the 1k mark.

I do think IE600 is pretty good, especially for how cheap if often sales for.

[–] ritzk9@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I got a bit cheaper at 700. Ier m9 is not available and that was really the only comparison without compromising the fit and comfort. Maybe dunu sa6 but people say it's less resolving

Only if it's treble and presentation compete at the high end that's enough for me in a way because I have ie600 now for bassy music. What do you think?

[–] SweetCans928@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

They do seem like they are different enough and complement each other pretty well(I have both as well). And sorry if it came across like I was bashing your Andromeda, I just kind of got the impression you were questioning the value of these expensive IEMs based on not being wowed, but re-reading your post it seems I was off-base. Sorry.

[–] MojarraMuncher@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I love the M9. Bonus is that it comes with the best cable you can get.

[–] flipper_gv@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Man what a fucking classic /r/headphones comment right there.

[–] ztikmaenn@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I think the only time I've had this reverse-FOMO is by getting an HD600 with a Schiit stack. It's so baseline with a sturdy reputation that it gives me peace of mind that I won't really need anything else unless I want to stray further from neutral.

[–] handsomeness@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Topping L30 was definitely an improvement on the og Atom.

6xx was a clear improvement over anything in the 5 series and the fidelio x2

Focal Clear was a very interesting improvement over the 6xx and let me finally hear the ‘veil’

ThieAudio 3 and 5 were disappointing

Starfields were ok but the blessing 2 dusks are amazing once you finally get the small cp155s

Fiio FH3 got sent back

TruthEar Zeros are shockingly good for the price. Reds even better.

Sundaras are like just okay and have a strange soundstage for me.

Beyer 770 250ohm are astonishing for their imaging but that’s about it and so I only use em for comp gaming

All of the above have been hyped in various ways throughout the years and the only way was to find out myself.

[–] AdonaelWintersmith@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I've never had FOMO, I can honestly say I could have been happy with my first setup with 598's forever, but eventually when I had money I could use toward it I wanted to experience that next level. I'm glad I did. My next upgrade is endgame for me for at least 10 years, unless something happens to them during that time I won't even think about or be tempted by any other equipment, I will just enjoy with no need to spend any money.

[–] TheEconomyReindeer@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

consumer debt

[–] johnnybgooderer@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

For me, AirPods Pro 2 + good full size headphones is the best combo. I have very very convenient and quite good sounding headphones when I’m out. And extremely good headphones at home.

[–] digumeister@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

i had itchy ears and face. starting to use speaker lol

[–] OctagramHassei@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

How the hell does those 2 tws compare to totl iems????

I'm new to this hobby and i need an actual answer... I go to wire for the quality but if tws can sound better than MOST wire then why the tradeoff for me?????

[–] Chomp-Stomp@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Get a low impedance source for the Andro and the bass will fill out a lot.

[–] ritzk9@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I carry it around with the apple usb c dongle in its case XD

[–] Tanachip@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

No fomo. My first nice headphone was the focal clear og. Then I used the B2Dusk for a while and went straight to the IER M9. Happy with my purchases. I also have the APP2 for conference calls.

[–] pdxbuckets@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I have little-to-no FOMO. I’m happy with my EQ’d 6XX. I know there are objectively better headphones, and I’m sure that there are headphones that would be subjectively better for me. But they sound fantastic. If I wanted to spend a grand auditioning similar headphones or springing for the next tier, I’d rather get a new fork for my mountain bike instead.

[–] DivineCurrent@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Yes, I certainly have faced the opposite of FOMO recently.

After trying the Focal Utopia 2022 earlier this year on tour, and comparing it to a bunch of my other headphones, I finally realized just how steep the diminishing returns roll off is past a certain price point in headphones. I experienced the opposite of FOMO when I compared the Utopia for two weeks to all my other under $500 headphones, and actually not hearing the substantial difference I was expecting. Hell, I even compared the Utopia to my IEMs under $200. The Utopias are more detailed and resolving, sure, but was it $4000 better? Absolutely not. I was able to get a similar sound with the Focal Clear MG I already owned. Also even more with the (now on sale) $129 JVC HA-FD01 IEMs, which have given me a super enjoyable, punchy and dynamic experience similar to that of the Clear MG and Utopia, at least when using a custom EQ profile for my ears.

If I had an extra few thousand dollars lying around right now, I probably would still get the Utopia 2022, it sounds incredible and is one of my favorites. But I’m honestly getting 95% of that ultra high end experience with things that cost a tenth of the price, and sometimes they can sound even better. Granted I haven’t heard many headphones above $1k, I still need to hear stuff like the LCD-4, Abyss, Susvara, etc. But I feel like most of these summit fi headphones are ultra detailed specialists, and I would rather go back to the trusty Sennheiser HD600, Hifiman HE-500, and Focal Clear MG for all rounder open back headphones. Or, dare I say it, the Koss KPH40.

[–] CrucibleForge2112@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Lol. been binge watching reviews and have no idea what any of these things sound like.

Picked up a few IEMs with good reviews and have been pleasantly surprised. just got the fudu and WOW!!

Other than comfort I like them as much as my meze advar and they’re only $89. they sound totally different - not even in the same ballpark of sound. But the enjoyment I get out of each pair is equivalent, but for different reasons. I kinda wanna hear everything now.

I always feel more comfortable spending big bucks on wired than tws/wireless no matter how good they sound. I feel like wired can last longer provided if we take care of it. Tws no matter what the batteries are eventually gonna give out and that makes the purchase short lived. I use my airpods just for the convenience (gyms commuting etc) and use my iems for music listening elsewhere.

[–] Jmo04@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I pretty much took the same route as you, literally from budget to andro 2020 haha. As long as you enjoy what you got then dont worry about it. I have AirPods Pro 2’s and I only use them for the gym and YouTube videos, the sound just doesn’t compete and lacks all emotion in my opinion

[–] klyzon@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

there is always something else out there.

Campfire Andromeda 2020 and Senheiser IE600 can be considered entry level stuff when there are easily 7 8k iems out there

[–] LaoRenMin@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Try EQing if something bothers you too much or try other sources, like with diff output impedance. Andros has that special sound that I can't hear from other IEMs. The only thing that matters is if you enjoy them. The resolution of the Andros is already top tier, you won't be missing much. It wouldn't be good for those looking for an aggressive sound though.

[–] Mediocre_Advice4966@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

You can always find some little flaw in the sound of any headphone/IEM if you are really looking for it. In my opinion the IE600 is endgame and there is no real reason to waste time and money stressing about which more expensive IEM might sound 5% better. As good as the Airpods Pro 2 are I really don't think they come come to the IE600, they are just good for tws and sound like $100 IEMS plus I can't see tws ever outclassing flagship IEMS because of the cost of constantly developing better ANC and other features they will probably always be a step behind or at least cost more than similar priced IEMS

[–] CZsea@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

tbh what is FOMO in this hobby? I never think of that before.

I did buy every sony wh1000x tho , is that count?

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