this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2023
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[–] TheDuckyNinja@alien.top 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Most of this article is about how QBs are injured more than they used to be and aren't as good as they used to be. And that's funny, because both are wrong.

In 1997, the league passer rating was 77.2. In 2002, it was 80.4. In 2007, it was 82.6. In 2012, it was 85.6. In 2017, it was 86.9. In 2022, it was 89.1.

Objectively, QB play is better than it's ever been. So why is the perception that QBs are getting worse? I think it's a few reasons. The biggest is that people outside just don't remember the shit QBs of yesteryear. Yeah, if you compare Daniel Jones to Eli Manning, maybe he comes off looking bad. But then you go back to 2012 and you see guys like Sam Bradford, Josh Freeman, Christian Ponder, Blaine Gabbert, Jake Locker, Brandon Weeden, and Mark Sanchez all being primary starters and it's easier to remember there's always been shit QBs. The other thing is that people tend to remember past QBs at their best, but most of the time, they were not at their best. I could talk about Matt Stafford, Andrew Luck, and Ryan Tannehill playing in 2012, but they all sucked in 2012.

Basically, QBs are objectively better than they used to be. If you think QBs used to be better, your memory is simply playing tricks on you and you need to take off the nostalgia goggles. I know how much people hate when this is brought up, but I also think that for some people, there's a race component. 8 of the top 15 QBs by passer rating this season right now are black, and while it's not everybody, there is definitely a subset of people who consciously or unconsciously rate those QBs lower than the white QBs of the past.

In 1997, 16 QBs started 14+ games. In 2002, 18 QBs started 14+ games. In 2007, 15 QBs started 14+ games. In 2012, 25 QBs started 14+ games. In 2017, 23 QBs started 14+ games. In 2022, 15 QBs started 15+ games.

This one's a little trickier. First of all, I want to point out that this article quotes Trent Dilfer and Rich Gannon, who played during the era when QBs got injured/were benched at the same rate QBs are today. 2022 was also an outlier. 2020 had 21 QBs and 2021 had 19 QBs. 2023 has 23 QBs who have started 10-12 games so far. I don't have the reasons for every QB missing every game, and I'm sure you could use other metrics, but generally speaking, this again appears to be a case where people simply forget the past. It's a lot easier to remember the seasons where QBs played. It's more difficult to remember the seasons they missed. It's even more difficult to remember the seasons where they missed 4 games or whatever. I'd also point out that citing 8 QBs being out this week is a little weird. Tannehill and Garoppolo are healthy, their teams have just already packed it in for this season and they want to take a long look at their young QBs. 3 of the other 6 (Rodgers, Cousins, Jones) were injured on non-contact injuries. Dilfer saying these QBs are "soft" or "more hurt than ever" just isn't supported by anything. QBs missing games appears to be directly in line with the past.

The reason it's trickier is that there clearly was a period from 2008-2017 where there was slightly less QB attrition. 2012, 2016, and 2017 were especially good years for QBs playing a lot, but the average throughout that period was a little higher overall. What's the reason for that? No idea. Probably a variety of factors.

Anyway, this ended up getting longer than I intended. This is all just a really long way of saying people will always yearn for the better days of the past but the better days of the past were rarely better, and this is no exception.

[–] Stop_Drop_Scroll@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I am in no way an expert in this, but could that also be because the explosion of skilled WRs? They’re faster than ever, getting a ton of separation. I remember the early 00s patriots with patton (rip) and givens. Those were Super Bowl winning wrs. It seems like now, if you don’t have an ultra skilled WR1, you’re toast. Even Mahomes, who doesn’t NEED one, is having a tougher go at it with a weakened WR group. And Josh Allen didn’t explode until he got his WR1. Game is played further away from the LOS nowadays. And I also think that teams trying to fit the run and gun mold of the new NFL without QBs who have that skill set it showing.

[–] Venator850@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

This is such an overblown topic. There are only a handful of Qb's playing "great" any given season. I've been watching the NFL since 2005 and there was a time where you had like two guys playing at a high level then everybody else.

If anything I'd say Qb play is generally higher than it was 15 years ago.

[–] Octavian_202@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I’ve been saying this since last year. The middle of the pack guys only look good, because the bottom tier is that bad.

[–] twonkenn@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Says you! My QB is having a career year. Guess who!?!?

[–] joe_broke@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I stand by my belief the reason for all this is due to the lack of a lot of decent o-line talent coming out of college these days

[–] MAJORMINORMINORv2@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

That is some grade d clickbait word feces

[–] MrDeeds117@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Don’t do my boy ‘shew like that

[–] Writerhaha@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

The post cherry picks a bunch of journeymen to make their point in the photo…

[–] superpie12@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Why is the highest QBR of last week shown in this picture? He's also a 5th round pick who was 3rd string and got zero first or second team snaps until a few weeks ago.

[–] ecupatsfan12@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Rich and Trent are right about the rules tho

[–] nkfish11@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Before it was too much of a passing league and now the QBs suck too much

[–] Zackary_To_You@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Kirko Chainz goes down and this is the result smh, surely there's no other contributing factor to this phenomena than that

[–] yaboyjiggleclay@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Tom Brady was right.

[–] Lubbafrommariogalaxy@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (5 children)

I think the biggest blame should go to o line, I feel like half the league has abysmal lines

[–] MinaElesia@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Some of the o-lines are bad to where they may as well be capital punishment.

[–] HarborCane@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

O line play is terrible these days. There just are not enough humans that have the size and athleticism to handle the freakish athletes that play d line in the nfl.

[–] Blastoplast@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

I’ve heard speculation that part of the reason O-Line play isn’t as good is because during the last Collective Bargaining Agreement there’s stipulations against live o-line vs d-line drills. This might even mean they can’t work on basic fundamentals like pad level, footwork, positioning even at 1/2 speed.

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[–] TF_Sally@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I assumed the poor o line play was the reason for soft holding calls (no idea if that’s true I just feel like a lot of angry comments on game threads are on d line getting held all game)

Seems like you’re only getting a holding call on an outside run or a blown up scramble where the OL gets caught trying to change direction and grabs his man from the side

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[–] Western_Promise3063@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Ew who posts nyp articles?

[–] Productpusher@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (5 children)

Watch the teams go back now to run heavy offenses

[–] volunbeers@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Arthur Smith has entered the chat… with his RB1… Jonnu Smith.

[–] Puntfootballs@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

Drafting Bijan in the top 10 was just to have a decoy out there, for more Jonnu Smith.

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[–] DrStrawhat@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

It’s due, time is a circle

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[–] Phenomenal2313@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Half the QB’s are injured and defenses have gotten better at stopping the big plays

Allen and Mahomes are both having “down seasons” by their standards , yet they’re probably going to finish with 4K passing yards and 30+ passing TD’s

[–] confetti_shrapnel@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

A lot of injured starters. BUT, I think the quality of play has been going down generally the past few years. I think the major reasons are the shortened camps, fewer vets attending camp, shortened preseason with fewer starters playing in preseason, and the trend toward young head coaches.

[–] zissou713@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Defenses are way more complicated than they used to be. Everyone is running hybrid and trap coverages that adapt to what the offense is running. A lot of mid to lower tier QB’s used to rely on the presnap read to give them their first and second look, and that just doesn’t work the same way anymore

[–] Lamb-Sauce7788@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Crap OL and ridiculous DL = rushed QBs with no time to scan the field. It's why we see so many screens and quick dump offs. Defenses have adjusted to this for the most part, so you get a ton of 1-2 yard completions this year it seems.

[–] JasonPlattMusic34@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Bad QB play is almost always caused first by bad line play. There are way too many offensive linemen that suck.

[–] LongjumpingWinner250@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

A lot of people are talking about analytics on the fields but the same thing applies to the draft. Teams will run a a west coast offense then draft a QB how is a first overall pick but fits best in a run and gun scheme and struggles in short pass areas.

Then everyone wonders why that QB was a bust.

[–] MarcusDA@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (3 children)

I’ve said this for awhile and people always hate it, but they basically need to make the QB off limits to hit unless they’re running. Like a sack would be you wrap him up and the play is whistled dead. I get that it would be lame, but is it any more lame than watching a shit ton of backups who can’t play?

Seriously, there’s like 20-25 people in the world who can be a competitive NFL QB. That’s it. After those 25 (and that’s being generous), you get absolute trash. They need to be protected more. This is a billion dollar industry, good QBs are the face of the franchises and they’re rare.

[–] Flaky_Dentist_5945@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I don’t get this take. We played decades with QBs getting hit and football was still great

[–] MarcusDA@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You think football is the same now as decades ago? When the DL was a stout 240 lbs and they smoked on the sideline.

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[–] KCShadows838@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Part of what makes quarterbacks cool is that they take the hits, they’re under pressure, they still perform. QBs have to know the play, know the coverage, set protections, and get an accurate pass off in 3 seconds or less, otherwise they get pounded by a 300lbs defensive tackle

Yeah, sometimes the backup has to play. Not every NFL game is going to be a shootout, sometimes your backup comes in and helps the team grind out an important 13-10 win, while the defense shuts down the opposing offense when the team needs it the most

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[–] jamesd1100@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Keep my man Tommy Chicken Cutlets outta the damn thumbnail

[–] OnePieceAce@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Below average offensive line play is leading to QBs with bad fundamentals

[–] VisionsOfClarity@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

The running game hid a lot of average to bad QB play. Now that "all fans want" is deep passes and shit we are seeing how hard it is and why old dudes used to say shit like "2 out of the 3 things that can happen when you forward pass are bad!". I still think that survey pushing the pass happy rules onto us was made up or something.

[–] V_Lombardi@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Backup QB’s are becoming more valuable than a lot of players at other starting positions. With the regular season being lengthened I think this trend will continue. I don’t think we’re far off from seeing teams with an established QB still draft a QB in the early 2nd round or even late 1st with the full intention of having them be the backup.

[–] DogPoetry@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Minshew (potentially) leading the colts to the playoffs really highlights what an asset a solid backup is. A good backup can save a season. All that talent and money spent on the jets is worth what now, that Tim Boyle is leading the team?

[–] TempleofSpringSnow@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Zach Wilson not being in this photo is the only win I can expect.

[–] daboys9252@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

DONT YOU TALK ABOUT MINSHEW LIKE THAT

[–] logster2001@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

It’s crazy because it’s not just that the bottom of the barrel QBs have looked especially bad this year, but the top guys haven’t looked as elite as usual either. Don’t get me wrong I still think guys like Mahomes, Lamar, Josh Allen, etc. they are still elite but just not quite as sharpe this year…CJ Stroud tho 🔥🔥🔥

[–] Wh00ster@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Is this actually true or just recency bias?

I thought completion percentage was waaaay up across the league and I definitely notice it when watching games.

Like people are just noticing the dinking and dunking and that makes young QBs afraid to take risks and grow

[–] Fineous4@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Time to nerf defenses I guess.

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[–] Stubbs94@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Imagine having bad QB play... I can't remember the last time the Texans had that...

[–] ReturnOfTheJurdski@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Sounds like New York Post is projecting.

[–] Rapidceltic@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

PI and defensive holding calls are way, way down. Receivers are getting mugged which causes QBs to hold the ball. Olines can't hold up. QBs get hurt.

[–] slimmymcnutty@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Given how massively slanted the game is towards QBs they don’t deserve any more rules to help them. Either figure out these defenses or run schemes more suited for guys skills.

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