In a world where a guy named Big Balls has had control over federal budget allocations, I can accept this.
this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2025
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I read the entire comment before "I can accept this" in preview guy voice
I don't know if Tolkien's notes support this, but I always assumed that Treebeard's Entish name was something completely unpronounceable for anyone who isn't an ent, and "Treebeard" was a nickname that he picked for himself. Maybe because he finds it funny that other species think he looks like a tree. (I'm sure that ents look clearly different from trees to other ents.)
Edit: he says so himself.
Hrum, now, well, I am an Ent, or that's what they call me. Yes, Ent is the word. The Ent, I am, you might say, in your manner of speaking. Fangorn is my name according to some, Treebeard others make it. Treebeard will do.
Fangorn is my name according to some
"Fangorn" means "Treebeard."
In Sindarin (the most common Elvish language), not Entish.
Hello. Thank you for typing this so that I didn't.
Didn't he also say that his actual Entish name would take too long to pronounce for regular mortals to bother with?
Right, wouldn't an Entish Introduction (great band name) take a month of common time?
So many get this backwards.
The languages (there are multiple, including historical languages that explain the transition into the modern languages) came first - by about 40 years.
He did not invent languages for his world. He invented a world to explain how his languages would come to exist.
Makes sense. The biggest strength of robust worldbuilding isn't showing it all to your audience, it's hinting at small pieces of it that shows a connection between them and hints at something deeper. Having what feels like a detailed history makes the world feel real, because you can see shadows of it in the foreground. If you actually dig into all of it explicitly in your story that just makes it feel shallow, because you're showing the whole iceberg.
It's why the mystery of the clone wars and Anakin's apprenticeship and betrayal of Obi-wan were intriguing in the original Star Wars trilogy, but end up just being some action movies once it's all fleshed out on screen. Depth stops being depth if you bring it all up to the surface.
I wish more writers would understand what you're pointing out here, I've actually stopped reading quite a few books over the years because the actual story takes a back seat to the world building.
"Treebeard some call me" - it's a nickname
His actual name would likely take a month or longer to say.
It... takes... a great... deal... of time... to say... anything... in Old... Entish... and we Ents... never... say anything... unless... it is worth... taking... a long... time... to say...
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It keeps blowing my mind when I learn that other languages haven't obfuscated the meanings of names behind two thousand years of linguistic divergence.
Your name almost certainly means something basic too, you just don't remember what it is.
Yep. Some common names:
Steve ← Steven ← Stephanus ← στέφανος = crown (or wealth)
Linda ← -linde = tender, soft
James ← Iacomus ← Iacobus ← Ἰάκωβος ← Ἰακώβ ← יַעֲקֹב = heel, footprint / follow, watch, observe
Karen ← Catherine ← Αἰκατερίνη ← Ἑκάτη = one who works from far away (referring to a goddess)
And "Tiffany" may sound like a very 20th-century American name, but it actually dates back to the early 13th century and is based on a Greek word that's even older. The "Tiffany Problem" is a really interesting phenomenon in the anthropological/perceptual space based on that.
Tiffany ← Tifinie ← Θεοφάνεια = "God's arrival/appearance"
It's also more closely related to the name "Natalie" than you might think, at least etymologically.
Natalie ←Natalia ←natale domini = "birth of the Lord" (Latin)
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even in english, it's a somewhat mixed bag. names like Grace, Hope, Faith are still accessible to modern people.
Guy who walks around the forest: Strider.
Guy who betrays everyone to side with Sauron: Sauron-man.
In my headcanon, that's not his real name. The books were written after the facts, so I imagine the writers wanted him to be remembered only as a Sauron henchman, erasing him from history.
Really, your headcanon has some precedent in the books. If Wormtongue had written the history, he literally would've called Gandalf "bad news." And in fact, Saruman's actual name was Curumo. ...uh, or Curunir. Or Sharkey, or Tarindor, or...
I mean, part of the problem is that every person (and place, and country, and river...) has like a half dozen names depending on who's talking and what time or place they're in. Gandalf himself is Greyhame, Gandalf, Stormcrow, and Lathspell in Rohan alone; and Mithrandir, Olorin, Incanus, and Tharkun to other people in Middle Earth.
Aragorn and Strider and Elessar and Estel and Wingfoot and Longshanks are the same person in different contexts. Galadriel is also Alatariel and Artanis and Nerwen. Legolas is Laicolasse and Greenleaf (all three of which, in fairness, mean the same thing in different languages).
And that's before we even talk about what their names "really" were in the "original" Red Book of Westmarch, before Tolkien "translated" them to English. The "actual" sound that came out of Bilbo's mouth when he introduced himself was Bilba Labingi, but Tolkien decided that the name Labingi "actually" would've sounded like the word for bag or sack to the "original hearers." Likewise Frodo's name is "translated" from Maura Labingi and Sam "actually" introduced himself as Banazir Galpsi.
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…in service of his fantasy epic.
This is wrong. The the histories, cultures, etc. were in service of the conlangs. Sure, he eventually wrote some stories set in that world, but that wasn't the reason he created it.
Seriously, like Gandalf just means magic elf. So he's just the magic elf that wears grey. Then he's the magic elf that wears white.
Names are just that, things we observe, want or expect.
Overt bad guy: Sauron
Secret bad guy: Saurumon
While I made the same association when first reading the books, I'll point out that the name Saruman is one the humans gave him. His Quenya name, Curumo, has little to do with Sauron, nor with the latter's original name Mairon before he revealed his allegiance to Melkor and the elves dubbed him Sauron (Quenya) and Gorthaur (Sindarin).
There is a connection between them, but it isn't by name. They were both originally Maiar of Aulë, both ambitious and cunning, both desiring order. But where Sauron thought siding with Melkor would get him the means to impose his noble order, Saruman stuck with the Valar and was eventually sent to protect the newly awakened elves from Melkor.
Still, that shared ambition for order eventually made allies of them, while their respective cunning saw each scheming against the other. If Gandalf and those meddling mortals hadn't gotten in the way, the final stage of the War of the Ring would have been a struggle between these two former colleagues. Depending on where the Ring ended up, that might have been an interesting struggle, the two most cunning Maiar going head to head, but I think it's for the best we never found out how that would have gone.
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Sure... but Tolkien could tell you Treebeard's name in hall a dozen languages he'd made up for his setting (or for fun, before the setting was a thing), including full etymologies.
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It's kinda funny with anime and manga. They use Japanese names for a bunch of stuff like special martial arts techniques or special moves. Not knowing Japanese, the names sound cool and mysterious.
Learning the actual translations, Treebeard is pretty par for the course.
Like from Naruto, Sasuke uses the Copy Wheel Eye (sharingan), Hinyata uses the White Eye (byakugon), and Naruto's big move is Spiral Sphere (rasengan). Copy Wheel Eye's upgraded version is called Kalidoscope Copy Wheel Eye.
They aren't horrible names, but they feel less cool.
Though it would be funny if Saitama has special moves that are just other languages saying "normal punch" or "serious punch". "Hip bump with moderate vigor" or something.
Edit: fixed spelling of byakugon
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He also nearly named Celeborn Teleporno, which would have been ~~awful~~ amazing.
Not "nearly." That's actually his name in the "pretranslated" language that the book was "originally" written in, within the fiction.
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No. he just translated it into treebeard for localization for English speakers. educate yourself.
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Maybe that's why Tolkien wrote a ton of books while most of us get stuck in the character creation screen of Baldur's Gate 3 choosing a name for 7 hours.
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To be fair, sounds a bit weird when you speak his name in portuguese...
It's me, I'm people
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