Canada

Cost Per Flying Hour F-35A: $36,000 - $48,000 USD Gripen E/F: $7,000 - $36,200 USD Difference: ~25-75% cheaper for Gripen (varies by source) Maintenance Hours Per Sortie F-35: 20-25 man-hours Gripen: 6-8 man-hours Difference: Gripen requires ~70% less maintenance labor Operational Availability (Readiness) F-35: 70-75% Gripen: High 90% range Difference: Gripen achieves roughly 2x readiness rate Total Lifecycle Cost (8,000-hour lifespan) F-35: ~$400 million (operations only) Gripen E: ~$180 million (operations only) Difference: F-35 costs ~2.2x more to operate

I thought they said the F35s were terriblly expensive to maintain per hour of flying. Things can seem reliable in air if most of their time is on the ground getting replacement parts, and adjustments, but that quickly can lose a war by expenses.

They're getting blasted out of the air in Iran right now. One confirmed with a second loss possible. How many F-16s has Ukraine lost in combat? I'm not saying the F-16 is a better aircraft than the F-35 but I think it does show that "stealth" isn't all that and an "old" aircraft like the F-16 or (for that matter) Gripen, with a modern sensor and weapons load-out, is actually pretty similar in capability.

Imagine being dumb enough to invest into the military industrial complex of a country that's actively threatening to invade you.

And to buy defensive weapons that can be summarily and remotely shut down by that invading country.

That would be the most moronic decision possible.

The Gripen may not be a 1:1 match with the F-35, but neither was the Sherman a 1:1 match with the Nazi Tiger tank. It took an average of 8 Shermans being KO’d to take out a single Tiger. But when 10, 20, or even more Shermans could be fielded for every Tiger that hit the field, victory came down to numbers, not technological superiority. As has been copiously demonstrated across nearly every conflict of the 20th and 21st centuries.

And instead of 88 F-35 aircraft, that exact same dollar value could buy us 420 Gripen aircraft, at even less on-going maintenance costs on an overall basis.

True, even with 420 Gripens we don’t stand any chance of defending ourselves. But effective defense is not the goal… the goal is to make any invasion as prohibitively expensive for America as possible. And 420 Gripens that cannot be remotely shut down is that answer.

My name's not Max, but thanks for the info.

EDIT: Aw, they edited the capitalization, making my dumb joke... more dumb.

Modern "stealth" aircraft like the F35 uses split-ring resonator patterns in the skin of the aircraft. This is much more durable than the iron spheres suspended in a top coat that the F-22 and older aircraft use. (There's a reason why the F-22 can't be left out in the rain). The problem is that the resonator pattern is highly dependent on radar frequency. So yeah, the Iranians may very well have found radar frequencies that aren't absorbed very well by the F-35.

That's all it has ever needed.

I appreciate the truth of your comment, but respectfully disagree.

1. You don't build a defense force and strategy for the conflict you hope happens. Hubris kills.

2. Our needs include all of NATO's needs, and to a far far smaller degree, any UN peacekeeking or similar function.

A 5th gen stealth fighter presents desirable attributes for specific purposes, but to your point they aren't the bulk of the work to be done.

The cost saving of a single fleet of F-35 also inject various fragilities of their own. Not the least of which is the catastrophic losses from a single plane going down from anything ranging from enemy action to training accident to supply chains fuckery.

I won't shed a single tear for the F-35 if we cancel the whole lot. But having some 5th gen makes sense. We should be going with the Brit or French led consortiums of middle powers, not US, Russia or China.

I’m also not convinced their stealth capability is that great.

It wouldn’t surprise me if the US knew of flaws and that’s why they’re fine selling them.

I wanna say the Danish have already jail broken theirs, not saying we should get them and jail brake them just saying it is possible.

I don't think our conventional military would last long if the US invaded regardless of the F35 or Gripen. The only hope in that situation is that the US sucks at occupying territory, and they would double suck in winter. That is if Daniel Smith, Scot Moe, Ford and their followers don't just roll out the red carpet.

Grippens flying over Canadian airspace are outside of Iran's range, so we should be fine there.