Linux

RTFM long predates videos in the internet; at this point I'd actually call it inclusive of videos and guides.

I actually get pretty pissed off when the only guide for a feature beyond a couple lines of "here's what this can do" with no elaboration is just a video. I don't want a video. I want a damn manual with working examples.

But if its all there is, I'll watch it before asking questions. The same should go for people who prefer videos, they should at least try the manual first, or looking at some guides or videos.

What's frustrating for people (generically speaking) is when zero attempt is made in advance of posting questions, and from what I see, is the majority of "RTFM" responses.

I suggest to replace RTFM by WHYTSF : What Have You Tried So Far.

The goal isn't to blame or guilt trip anyone, rather it's to genuinely help and for that others need to know... WHYTSF?!

sadly dwarfed by YouTube videos that are outdated as soon as they are produced, and web guides nobody maintains. worse, AI scrapers only know this outdated information and happily hallucinate based on it it is EXHAUSTING having users cheer and celebrate the placebo of all the made up bullshit that does nothing in their config or worse breaks everything in unpredictable ways

For me RTFM just means “show us you tried something yourself before reaching out for help”. In other words that you tried putting some work in and not just trying to get someone else to do your work or thinking for you.

I’m very happy to help someone willing to learn, but detest helping someone too lazy to do anything themselves.

Long time linux user: The worse problem is they don't even tell WHICH manual is relevant to the issue.

"How do I make my secondary drive auto-decrypt?" "RTFM"

Could have at least said "man crypttab 5" so that I don't have to waste 3 hours just trying to find the starting point.

The idea of RTFM is that if you have questions, then we are all on same page with basic information found in the manual. I mean you expect others explain what is already said in the manual. Its like asking how to use your microwave oven, even if you have the manual right at your hand. Now, if the manual is unclear or difficult to understand, that is a different story. Then you can at least say you didn't understand it. The point is, that you did something before (your homework) and looked at the obvious places like the manual (and maybe further websearch).

People don't like others being lazy and asking the questions that doesn't need to be asked. That's why RTFM exist. As much as you might take the "RTFM" as an offending answer, those people think of you question as offending too. Now there are people who use this term loosely in places when it is not appropriate. Also it depends on the audience. If your grandma tries to use a browser to watch funny cat videos, and asks how to use it, then it would be inappropriate to say RTFM. But if you have a Linux user who asks about how to use grep, then I think it is an appropriate reply.

RTFM is mostly a flex that people who got help before you are now referring to because they are already on the boat.

That said, a rudimentary Web search or maybe a llm question, might be in order before asking. You also learn more when you get those little successes by yourself.

do you mean man pages? man pages are awesome. man is like the biggest deal command in unix.

Ι must say that Arch Linux's wiki pages are easily understood. But man pages are not. I can't follow the standard manual format. Just like with IKEA instructions, they just don't make sense to me. My brain is like that. But Arch Linux pages are good.

RTFMP - I’d read the man pages if I could decipher them. 😁

Mostly /s

RTFM doesn't have to literally mean to read text, just like saying "let me google that for you" doesn't have to literally be google. Both statements are similar; the point is instead of burdening others with teaching you something, go learn it on your own whether that be the manual or random Indian tech youtuber.

As a rule I don't tell people to RTFM, because it has some rude dismissive connotations, although I will share when it helps me solve a problem I've been butting up against that would've been solved if I had just read the docs.

That being said, I do encourage people to read the docs, as others' walkthroughs can be misinformational, and are usually tied to specific setups or software and hardware versions. It requires learning how to wade through a lot of information to find the info you need, but the info is usually guaranteed to be the most current and reliable.

That all being said, I'm more than happy to help when people want it.

It's a skill like any other. When you need to look up something, make yourself at least try tldr, man, etc. first. Over time you will find yourself skimming through man pages to find what you need faster than looking up a video.

"RTFM" (or similar comments like "it's in the docs") are just mean and useless without a reference.

Like, okay, superior user in the internet: If it's in the manual/docs, what page? Do you have a link? Could you quote the relevant section?

Often people ask because they couldn't find the answer in the docs. Simply pointing them at the answer is infinitely better than "lol the answer is in there somewhere"

See also: "Let me Google that for you..." Like mf Google brought me to this thread!

I started my development career working on a VAX-VMS system. We had a large cupboard full of documentation for the OS, and it contained every answer I needed. Multiple volumes of documentation!

It was so much better reading official the docs to understand how a particular system call worked. And very gratifying being able to internally say “I worked it out for myself!”. I miss those days.

I am not an expert but I will help you where I can!

it’s just that it doesn’t work efficiently enough.

Yeah, but we live in a world of limited resources. in particular labor and specifically knowledgeable linux nerds willing to answers questions for free. If everyone will have that mindset there won't be a lot of time left to answer the difficult questions .

With that said i agree that occasionally if its done its probably no big deal, there is also linux 4 noobs for those who want to ask some questions to help getting started with linux.

There's a manual?

Tealdeer.

From the beginning of computing there has been a problem with bootstrapping knowledge... the person creating a tool gives it a name, and describes it, but knowing that someone solved the problem you have and what the name of that tool was always a challenge.

But that is nothing new... you posted in English but if you were to learn a different language you would have a very similar problem, and one of the most universal strategies for making that transition is to drill on vocabulary. Once you have built a small vocabulary then you can expand it using a dictionary.

The real message behind someone saying RTFM is that there are so many educational and search resources now that asking some rando on the Internet to rewrite a Howto on the fly is lazy. Simply typing the exact same question into Google will bring up a kickstarter set of vocabulary and resources. If you actually do this your question will often answer itself, and if it doesn't and you start by pointing out why your efforts failed to help you with your specific problem and use the vocabulary (at least briefly) that your research turned up to guide the reader toward where your problem is, you should get less RTFM responses.

If it's a more complex subject matter i can understand people asking questions, because in those cases the documentation can also be more difficult to understand. I've asked questions in those situations myself as well, and a video of someone walking you through it can be very helpful. When someone asks the most basic questions ever i tend to be more on the RTFM side of things though. If you ask a question that literally has like a oneliner answer in the manual it seems to me like you didn't put in that much effort before posting. I never actually RTFM'd someone though. I either answer anyway if i feel generous, or i just ignore it lol.

What manual? What part of the manual? What if something happens that the manual didn't cover? What if the manual is out of date or wrong? What if the maintainer of the manual made a mistake?

RTFM works for uncomplicated things and/or is a good starting place but is largely an unproductive thing to say these days in my opinion

RTFM makes more sense in a professional context. I don't expect anybody to read anything unless 1 they want to or 2 they are being paid to

Saying RTFM in a hobby or recreational space is just being an asshole for no good reason