tl;dr: There is no AI moderation, the mod team built a tool to more conveniently get a user history in case a user needed some investigating based off reports they got. They tried a couple times to ingest what the tool returned into a local LLM for a summary but found in overall lacking. In one instance the local LLM's finding matched what the mods had already found manually and seeing how the summary was concise just posted that.

This is not a problem of the lemmy software, this could as well happened on any fediverse instance. Your posts, your DMs, everything you do on the fediverse is federated and can therefore be seen by the instances it's federated with.

But why even move, this is the fediverse, make accounts wherever you want and use them at the same time? I use this account for wider posting and have a hexbear as well as lemmy.ml account for local posting (although I sometimes confuse this account with the .ml account).

[–] Shatur@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 8 hours ago (1 children)

I can't open the first link for some reason. But I also found this post to be useful: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/59687224

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Yeah they lost the plot and just deleted the thread...

Here is the comment from db0 originally

Another hit piece from rimu against /0. Must be a day that ends with -y...

EDIT: Here's rimu admitting that this is all based on a single modlog and him just making assumptions based on that and that alone.

Here's the series of events as I understand it

Rimu sees a two-week-old public modlog entry from unruffled banning a zionist as per our instance rules.
Rimu visits the public evidence linked and discovers that it's a dump of the comments of said zionist, and it includes an LLM summary of those
Rimu sees the FAF logo on the pastebin. Rimu assumes that even though it's clearly not a FAF domain, since it has the FAF logo, it's an official FAF tool. This is false.
Rimu sees the LLM summmary and assumes that the banning happened due to the LLM summary. This is false
Rimu assumes that the tool that gathered these comments is automated. This is false
Rimu assumes that because it looks like an official tool, and despite the fact that he can only find a single modlog entry, all of the instance admins are regularly using it. This is false.
Rimu concludes that the instance is using an automated LLM judgement mechanism for instance moderation. This is egregiously false
Rimu does not reach out to any of our instance admins for clarification, even though we exist in the same instance-cooperation matrix channels. Even though our instance admins explicitly reached out to him earlier this month and asked to contact them for any questions/cooperation in order to avoid further drama and escalations. Note that there's a reason why journalists ask for comments before publishing information.
Rimu doesn't do any other due diligence.
Rimu rushes to publish with a cross-post to mastodon, because he knows the knee-jerk GenAI-hate there is much stronger than on threadiverse.
When called on any of the false and misleading statements he's made by multiple people in the comments, Rimu completely ignores everyone countering him and all arguments, not to mention being so confused he doesn't even know if he's talking about mods or admins.

I'll leave the fact of why Rimu was randomly going through 2-week old modlogs of banned zionists as an interesting open-ended question.

[–] otter@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 day ago

Nothing against Mbin, but how would it help with the AI moderation issue? From what I understand about the AI moderation, it was a group of mods that sent a user's history into a model for analysis. That will still be possible with Mbin, and anywhere else

[–] Blackout@fedia.io 18 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I'll give you my number one reason for why I stuck with kbin and mbin since the beginning. They have the best hot sort. It emulates Reddit much better than the other ways of sorting. I have fedia set up with pages, no unlimited doomscrolling, and large thumbnails so I can quickly peruse anime porn.

[–] Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com 17 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

People don't talk about this enough, Lemmy's "Hot" sort is kinda garbage lol. It leans too heavily towards new posts. Same thing with sorting comments by Hot. "Active" is more in-line with what Reddit users expect, or something like Top 6 Hours. I haven't tested Mbin's "Hot" much.

I remember a user on Reddit saying that Lemmy is dead because they looked at All+Hot and saw very few comments. On Lemmy right now I go to All+Hot and the front page posts mostly have 0 to 3 comments. All+Active is showing mostly posts with 50 to 200 comments. All+Top 6 Hours mostly has 5 to ~30 comments.

[–] nutomic@lemmy.ml 2 points 15 hours ago (1 children)

Do you think it would make sense renaming Active to Hot and vice versa?

[–] Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com 1 points 11 hours ago

I think maybe it would be better to just tweak the Hot algorithm slightly. Maybe either adjust the curve, or use max(age, 1 hour) in the calculation so that new content is not favored quite as hard, aka new content is scored as if it were an hour old.

But you could make a dedicated discussion post asking about this, so more people can see

[–] rimu@piefed.social 7 points 1 day ago

I agree.

Compare https://lemmy.world/?dataType=Post&listingType=All&sort=Hot with https://piefed.social/home/hot/all for example.

[–] scytale@piefed.zip 6 points 1 day ago

Oh no, what are these anime communities so I can make sure to avoid them?

[–] Drusas@fedia.io 15 points 1 day ago

After being used to mbin (and previously kbin), I can't stand lemmy. Better layout, little bit better visibility into activity, reasonable federation/defederation choices with other instances, etc.

Just try it out for a while.

[–] yessikg@fedia.io 4 points 1 day ago

It's better than Lemmy because it's compatible with all fediverse services, at least all of the ones I've tried

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 14 points 1 day ago

I liked kbin a lot because earnest was pretty prolific with improvements. mbin felt a bit like maintenance mode. I went to piefed because it seemed to be very active with improved tools for the user and such.

[–] mesamunefire@piefed.social 11 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Honestly it just looks a bit different. Same community and people (one of the benefits of the fediverse). I remember it was a fork of another project (I want to say Kbin but im not sure).

[–] Kierunkowy74@piefed.social 9 points 1 day ago

Yes, it was /kbin. I liked it there.

[–] MeowerMisfit817@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

Yeah, it's KBin.

[–] Kierunkowy74@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago

More, as you have access to Mastodon/Misskey/Akkoma/etc. users too

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 8 points 1 day ago

I have an Mbin account I don't really use, because I prefer Piefed features (personal feed similar to multireddits, comments consolidation) compared to Mbin (microblogging support).

It's really a personal decision.

[–] ZeroCool@piefed.ca 9 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I heard about the whole AI moderation thing

Can you fill me in please?

[–] Sergio@piefed.social 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

https://piefed.ca/c/fediverse/p/699486/ai-assisted-moderation-in-the-fediverse-is-happening-now-what

[–] alb@reddthat.com 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

If they're third party tools and not built-in features of lemmy/piefed, why does this reflect badly on them? And wouldn't a mod at mbin be able to implement them in their community?

[–] MeowerMisfit817@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago (2 children)

Long Story Short: A bot got created in Lemmy and Piefed to moderate around.

[–] tofu@lemmy.nocturnal.garden 12 points 1 day ago

Switching to mbin won't help you with that since it's the same communities.

[–] rimu@piefed.social 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Ahhh no no it's not a bot - the moderator is using OpenAI to check if a user has said anything that makes them a promoter of a political ideology that they consider to be bannable.

The human mod still presses the ban button themselves, manually.

[–] Shatur@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Didn't they say it was a local model?

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago) (1 children)

Yeah also the whole "they're trying to police wrongthink" is funny coming from the dev that implemented this:

~~Imagine the outcry if someone had a warning label: "🚨 Promotes zionist perspective"~~ see e.g. https://piefed.social/post/2035412

apparently it's not on a user basis but for certain sites

[–] Shatur@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Whoa, I didn't know it! I hate this.

[–] mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 points 7 hours ago

Uh sorry apparently it's not on a user basis but for certain sites, still a shitty thing to do but not as egregious

[–] Maestro@fedia.io 4 points 1 day ago

I mostly like the Mbin UI better than the Lemmy UI and Piefed UI. It certainly looks better IMHO. There are a few annoying bugs in Mbin where images are sometimes not shown, or gifs are shown as static images. Not often, but it happens occasionally.

[–] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (2 children)

Try it and see.

It takes all of about a minute to sign up for an instance and it doesn't cost anything, so there's no reason not to do it. If you like it, great and if you don't, you're not out anything.

For the record I actually prefer KBin/MBin - they just have a better interface than Lemmy. But KBin was a one-man effort and when the guy running it burnt out, it soet of fell by the wayside. MBin is a fork that was meant to be a more open project, but the guy who was mostly responsible for it is a bit of a twat and mostly used it to pimp Monero, so it never quite caught on like it should have.

You might also sign up for an instance or two on piefed. The guy who's mostly responsible for that is also a bit of a twat, but he's had some good help and some people pushing back against his tyrannically censorious tendencies, so it's pretty decent.

The only way you're ever really going to know what you think about any of them is to try them out for yourself. And there's literally no reason not to.

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

You might also sign up for an instance or two on piefed. The guy who’s mostly responsible for that is also a bit of a twat

If you mean Rimu, I haven't seen any examples of that. Explain?

[–] Shatur@discuss.tchncs.de 2 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

I saw him recently attacking the dbzero instance. Check this comment and probably this post.

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 1 points 11 minutes ago

I tried getting through that mess, but was left even more confused than when I began.

TL;DR?

[–] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Piefed by default auto-subscribes accounts to a curated set of communities, auto-hides downvoted content and downvoted posters, attaches icons to accounts to mark those that have beyond a particular threshold of downvotes and entirely blocks links to a curated set of sites because Rimu deemed them to be unacceptable.

The only saving grace is that at this point those (anti-)features are generally toggleable at least at the admin level, but that's thanks to wjs018.

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 5 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Piefed by default auto-subscribes accounts to a curated set of communities

When I first signed up, I was given a 'checkbox system' to subscribe to /c's of interest. IIRC I also had the option of signing up for none. That said, if PF auto-subscribes to some core communities (like META, help, Fediverse, etc), then I'm not really seeing a problem?

auto-hides downvoted content and downvoted posters

I mean... I see plenty of downvoted content & posters in my subscribed feed. Maybe that's not the case with ALL, tho? TBH, that sounds like SOP in terms of social media.

attaches icons to accounts to mark those that have beyond a particular threshold of downvotes

I like it, as that generally helps identify low-effort & toxic posters. I guess I can see the point though that it might accidentally sweep up others, simply because they're challenging or whatnot. On the whole though, I certainly don't have a problem with that little bit of extra info, which I'm free to do with as I please.

entirely blocks links to a curated set of sites because Rimu deemed them to be unacceptable.

Yeah. Personally I would have liked to have some access to various NSFW content, as I'm not a child, but then again, PF.S is Rimu's home instance, and as the dev and head admin, I absolutely do not have a problem with him doing that. I mean, if I really wanted to work around that, there are plenty of other PF instances as a base...

So at the end of the day, you seem to be calling someone a "bit of a twat" based on policy decisions. Someone who's donated loads of his personal time, effort and brainwaves to a community project for loads of others to enjoy. Can't say that sounds particularly cool to me, mate.

[–] Shatur@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

I think the commenter above is referring to this: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/53741035/23561666

Edit: I also just learned about this: https://discuss.tchncs.de/post/59644504/25592855

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 2 points 10 hours ago

So at the end of the day, you seem to be calling someone a “bit of a twat” based on policy decisions. Someone who’s donated loads of his personal time, effort and brainwaves to a community project for loads of others to enjoy. Can’t say that sounds particularly cool to me, mate.

Good summary

[–] JayGray91@piefed.social 1 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

I'm thinking of making a replacement NSFW account a piefed based instance after lemmynsfw died. I just like most of what piefed has quite a bit, especially consolidating similar posts' comments.

Or maybe I should go back to mbin and find some artists on mastodon/misskey and put in more effort weaning off xitter. Still annoyed that a lot of artists are still on it.

[–] Blaze@piefed.zip 2 points 10 hours ago

https://fedinsfw.app/ is there for you

[–] NotSteve_@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago (2 children)

but the guy who was mostly responsible for it is a bit of a twat and mostly used it to pimp Monero

Oh damn, I missed that bit if fedi drama. Is there a writeup of what happened anywhere?

[–] Kierunkowy74@piefed.social 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Without his twattiness there would be no Mbin. And a legacy of /kbin would likely be as forgotten as e.g. Prismo...

The fork happened when Ernest was already struggling with his commitments in firefighting on emerging kbin.social technical issues, developing things which would prevent these issues to happen again, refactoring the code, likely work and life and - as a nail to the coffin - some health problems. Forking out of project leader during his troubles couldn't not look like a some kind of backstab. However, Ernest, in a typically Polish way, has never trusted anybody else enough to enable one to develop /kbin further. This circumstances of the forking are the crux of this drama.

Melroy technically initiated the forking of Mbin, but the project itself embraces C4 and has got no (benevolent or not) dictators. Neither of largest Mbin instances are operated by maintainters of Mbin.

I liked /kbin more than Mbin, but the former eventually collapsed. You still will be able to follow people from e.g. Mastodon or Misskey and sort their posts like on Lemmy. Or subscribe/follow to any Ghost/WriteFreely/any federated WordPress blog and benefit from probably the best interface to read long forms on federation.

[–] NotSteve_@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 day ago

Thank you for the writeup! I wasn't actually familiar with the C4 project structure and it's cool that Mbin went with thay. I do remember Ernest and how that went down but I was curious about the Monero-pimping stuff. I was digging a bit but I couldn't find any information on that point

[–] WatDabney@sopuli.xyz 2 points 1 day ago

I dunno. I just noticed it as it was happening.

[–] deliriousdreams@fedia.io 4 points 1 day ago

I like it but I don't really have much of anything to compare it to. I chose it because I can easily delineate my lemmyverse stuff from my mastodon stuff but view both in one place. That's about the best I can say about it.

[–] baronvonj@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago

I tried out mbin via fedia.io for a while because it was one of the few Fedi microblog instances that wasn't blocking Threads, because I wanted to get updates directly from USMLR league and teams, but that didn't really an out (half the teams weren't on Threads and of the accounts that were none had enabled the Fediverse compatibility). So I haven't really continued on with that account.

[–] Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org 5 points 1 day ago

i don't know about about AI moderation, but I like mbin. I also like the fact that I can interact with the majority of the Fediverse in one account.

[–] terabyterex@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

i started there, like lemmy, i also sign into piefed. its just different software connecting to the fediverse

[–] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I mean it's basically Lemmy with a different wrapper.

[–] JohnnyEnzyme@piefed.social 1 points 8 minutes ago

Sorta-kinda?
But the features and philosophy seem pretty notably different.

That said, I haven't logged in to Lemmy for ~a year (my instance shut down), but does Lemmy have curated and personal feeds, like PF does..?

[–] sad_detective_man@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 day ago

I was looking at it for the purpose of hard-blocking while still using Lemmy. It didn't serve my specific need but it is able to send and receive comments from Lemmyverse and browse all the instances