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37
Pope Leo decries European military spending as 'betrayal' of diplomacy (www.reuters.com)
submitted 18 hours ago by schizoidman@lemmy.zip to c/europe@feddit.org
15 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

"Let us not ​call 'defence' a rearmament that increases tensions and insecurity, impoverishes investments in education and ​health, betrays trust in diplomacy, and enriches elites who care nothing for the common good," said the pontiff.

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[–] KatherinaReichelt@feddit.org 10 points 9 hours ago

The problem in our situation right now is that diplomacy kind of failed and that we are dealing with bad faith actors and states who are not really trustworthy. We've seen Putin agreeing to the Minsk peace treaties while preparing for another big attack on Ukraine. We've seen the USA electing Trump and going batshit insane.

So two of the major powers have kind of abandoned the idea that diplomacy is worth anything. You can't trust Putin, you can't trust Trump. So you need to be able to defend yourself.

[–] CosmoNova@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

Tibet tried that. For quite a while. Then they took the guns and manned the few canons they had. But it was too late and they were too few. They simply weren‘t prepared for an invasion and they had no allies to aid them. You can‘t be truly pacifist if you can‘t defend yourself.

[–] inari@piefed.zip 16 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

Defensive capabilities can serve as deterrence, and in that sense can actually ensure peace. He should know that much.

[–] iocase@lemmy.zip 9 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

"blessed are the πραεῖς, for they shall inherit the earth"

πραεῖς = praeis = meek (closest English word. Not great imo) = Greek word that describes a person who has strength but restrains it. A strong man who yokes himself for the good of his community and for God. Someone capable of force, who is restrained by discipline against their own impulses.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 10 hours ago

True, but you also do run into a "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail" problem, especially as investing in the military inevitably empowers people who absolutely would like a war to break out. Doubly so for countries with long histories of imperialism (cough cough France cough). It's also not like Russia is a conventional military threat; if their performance in Ukraine is any indication present European militaries should be more than enough to wipe the floor with them. He's also 100% true about military spending taking away funding from worthier causes, and while this isn't caused by a lack of funds per se (if European countries wanted to they could always tax their ultra-rich) with rising austerity you do get a situation where money is being taken away from social welfare and put into the pockets of the defense industry. It's not nearly that simple on either side, but there are plenty of valid reasons to oppose militarization. If European countries want to defend themselves they should give more money and weapons to Ukraine, or invest in renewables to cut down on Russian gas, or do any of the hundreds of things they could be doing before selling their souls to the military-industrial complex devil.

[–] brainwashed@feddit.org 1 points 8 hours ago

Doesn’t he have a private army despite his security being guaranteed by Italy?

[–] MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world 7 points 13 hours ago

The article is paywalled and therefore doesn't exist. Only the headline exists.

[–] Quacksalber@sh.itjust.works 17 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

The pope can get Putin to stop his war, then I'll listen.

[–] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Maybe a papal ban will do the trick? Haven't seen one of those in ages.Oh wait, the predominant christian sect in Putin's empire doesn't even recognise the authority of the pope.

[–] Gieselbrecht@feddit.org 5 points 10 hours ago (1 children)

Why did I read this as paypal ban and got confused

[–] trollercoaster@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago

You see? Papal bans haven't been widely used for so long that people forget they even exist.

[–] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 14 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

"you should just roll over and let yourself get conquered"

And it's not like most EU-countries are truly hurting for money, they just refuse to tax their super rich.

[–] DdCno1@beehaw.org 6 points 17 hours ago

Yup. I'm all in favor of militant pacifism (and taxing the rich). It's crucial for maintaining peace in today's world. Look dangerous, be dangerous, but only use this power to defend yourself and others from aggression.

[–] vane@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago

US Pope

[–] FiniteBanjo@feddit.online -2 points 18 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

I was on the fence about the new Pope until now, but fuck em. Fuck the pope. I'd rather have the old one back, again, because even though he had shifty ideals on Ukraine at least he was too crippled to run his mouth.