this post was submitted on 05 Jun 2026

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First real road trip in an EV today (sh.itjust.works)

submitted 1 day ago by MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works to c/dull_mens_club@lemmy.world

44 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Drove from NoVA to the NW part of SC today in my 22 Bolt EUV. I used ABRP to route to chargers and put the addresses into Google maps to check reviews and GPS me there. The car is J1772/CCS, but I bought an adapter ahead of time to make use of Tesla/NACS chargers.

Unfortunately, this car only has a max charge rate of 55kW, so my refueling stops are either more frequent or longer than I would like, but I don't do road trips often and this car was half the price of the ioniq I wanted.

I had one issue today. A Tesla supercharger I stopped at just wouldn't initialize the charge. I even tried plugging into another one right next to it, but no dice. I've since learned that V2 superchargers won't work with my car even with an adapter, so I guess that's what that one was? I have no way of knowing. ABRP and Google maps don't specify. Maybe the Tesla app does? Thankfully, there was an Electric America charger just a couple miles away, but I was pretty stressed out since I was pretty well drained and didn't know where I was.

The hotel we're at has level 2 chargers, so I shouldn't need to deal with unfamiliar chargers again until we head back to NoVA. In the meantime, I've deselected NACS chargers from my ABRP vehicle options. It's possible that my adapter just died after only a few successful uses, but the location I had an issue with had a review of somebody else being unable to charge, so I think it's just that V2 issue.

In summary, the difference has been that it takes a little longer, it takes a little more planning and preparing, and there is a risk of some anxiety, but it's easier to drive, less chance of "car trouble" events, and especially right now it is significantly cheaper to refuel. But get something that accepts at least 100kW charging lol. I think the ioniq does like 240kW? With that, you basically plug in, use the bathroom, grab a coffee, and you're ready to go.

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[–] LastYearsIrritant@sopuli.xyz 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

If you use Plugshare, you can narrow down charger searching a lot more and preplan your routes better.

It's harder to just wing it, but it's nice to know exactly how the trip will go.

[–] MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I was using ABRP. Is plugshare significantly different?

[–] invertedspear@lemmy.zip 2 points 1 hour ago

I’m using PlugShare doing a 1500 mile round trip in the Southwest. A major reason is I’m towing an RV and plug share lets me set my max range which is very different than without towing.

In plug share I map the route, then it gives me all the chargers on that route in the range of my truck. I pick one then out gives me the next charger on the route in my range. Repeat till I get to the destination.

The other thing plug share does is tell me when I click on a Tesla station if it’s Tesla only or open to others. Invaluable info as I cruise through Texas oil country with chargers almost beyond my range where I might not have enough juice to make it to another.

[–] WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Where is NoVA and SC? How far did you drive, how long did that take you and how long did you spend charging mid drive (Ie not while you were parked up say overnight?)?

[–] MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

It was about 450 miles in like 10 hours total, but I was sitting in pretty rough traffic at two points, and there were mountains to go up and down. My car charges really slowly, so probably about 2.5 hours of that time was spent charging, but with bathroom/food breaks aligning with it we were really only waiting on it for maybe 45 minutes total. Google maps says it's like a 7 hour drive without stops, but it's also not showing traffic right now either.

Next time, I'll get a higher voltage car that can accept higher load charging and cut this time down to less than half, so it'll be basically the same as putting gas in a car. But I don't do many road trips, so this will be fine for me for a long while.

[–] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

NoVA

Pretty rough traffic

Story checks out

As somebody who moved from NoVA to upper SC, I totally understand. We have an Ioniq 5 (and soon a Rivian R2) and yeah charging stops are quick and nice. EVs are absolutely the future and I love being on the front of it. We had 2 teslas before but … yeah not anymore.

[–] MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

I had called a dealership to set up a test drive of their used ioniq 6 because it was listed as like $24k or something. They said ooh we already sold that, but you can test drive a new one that's $45-50k.

Surprisingly, the worst of the traffic was around Charlotte, NC.

[–] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 2 points 2 hours ago

Car dealers really are the worst.

Charlotte traffic (I live in the metro area) has gotten pretty bad. It was amazing when I moved here from NoVA, but the growth here has been insane.

[–] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Which adapter do you have?

[–] MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

This one.

[–] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 1 points 56 minutes ago

I wonder if there's an easy way to test them, other than actually driving out and trying it somewhere.

[–] YeahIgotskills2@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

The only problem I've had with the EVs we've been leasing for 5 years now, is unsolicited criticism from EV haters. They seem to ignore the fact that I've been driving various diesel and petrol vehicles for decades. If my own lived experience of EVs was less rewarding than my previous ICE ownership I'd switch back. It's not like a football team that I'm wedded to. They're just generally better cars in terms of driving, torque, maintenance, cost to run and basically every metric that matters to me as a driver. Quite why that annoys people who in many cases have never even been behind the wheel of one is beyond me.

[–] baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago

People feel so threatened by EVs, it’s hilarious. “I just like engine noise and the smell of gas”… good for you buddy, maybe stop huffing the fumes so much.

[–] WolfmanEightySix@piefed.social 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I’m the opposite of you. I like engine noise and prefer how ICE vehicles drive, but will presumably eventually end up in an EV, and that’s fine. Getting mad at other people cause of their life choices is weird.

[–] YeahIgotskills2@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

That's fair enough. I think some people have an attachment to the sound of the engine and to stick shift, and that's valid. But I think the majority of people who just want to get from A to B would prefer an EV if they objectively had a chance to try both. I've always owned fairly boring cars and was a delivery driver in my 20s. For me, the EV I have feels like a sports car as the torque is great and it's a fun drive. Of course, for fun I'd rather have a Lambo, but that's not where I am.

[–] JustEnoughDucks@slrpnk.net 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I have had tons of problems with my VW ID4.

But all of them are related to the stupid "smart" features and "entertainment" system that drive the cost up 1.5x. Android auto taking literally up to 15 minutes to connect to any phone, air conditioning glitching constantly because of extremely bad touch buttons, crashing entertainment system, false range estimation, quasi-unusable backup camera quality compared to my old 2015 Nissan Altima, the app saying the car was unlocked when it wasn't. The car unlocking automatically when I walk past to walk the dog and then not relocking when I am gone, false tire pressure warnings, poor quality plastics and really stupid LED lighting strips that will cost 2000€ to fix when they inevitably break.

The car part of it worked quite well and very quiet except for the complete bullshit that is the range estimation.

Sadly most of these problems are just the auto industry bullshit and would also occur on new combustion cars also.

[–] PancakesCantKillMe@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago

VW has had a rough time with EVs of late and they’ve partnered with Rivian in an attempt to share knowledge and improve. It doesn’t help at all that the German government seems to flip-flop on EV regulations, but I think VW already had many problems of their own making.

[–] urandom@lemmy.world 3 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

FYI: Tesla v2 chargers do not go up to 250kw. That may be a way for you to differentiate

[–] MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works 1 points 18 hours ago

I was actually looking for a way to know, so this was extremely helpful to me! What's strange is that what wasn't working is showing up as 325kW. I'm gonna be pissed if the adapter I bought is already dead.

[–] Bell@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I suspect Tesla is rejecting charging your car because it'll take away a spot for faster charging cars...and it'll take that spot away for longer.

[–] waxy@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago

This is believable with Elon the cunt however it's not the case - you need a particular adapter for the superchargers that's much beefier and more expensive. It may not even be an option for a Bolt, I'm not sure. For my EV the supercharger adapter is double the cost of the level 2 adapter.

[+] unitedwithme@lemmy.today -28 points 1 day ago (8 children)

Yeah... Reasons I won't buy a fully electric vehicle in their current state:

Slow charge times
Low ranges
Risk of severe fire, shortages, or damages from an accident (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S2352152X25032724)
High initial cost (even often with incentives or rebates
Often times lack of serviceability in certain areas
A lot of the grid power still based on fossil fuels or coal
Extremely heavy compared to traditional ICE cars

What needs to happen before better widespread adoption (IMO):

Sodium ion battery adoption (or similar) that has similar A. energy density, B. better capacity, C. faster charging, D. longer range
Better hybrid technology like Turbo diesel electric (similar to trains as a generator or electric assisted engine since diesel already get great MPG like the Jetta in the US)
Propane-based generator so no need to "charge"
Better grid supplementation with more renewables
Possible "hot swap" battery packs that are charged and ready to go

I would love a Honda Accord Sport Hybrid so I don't need to charge it but still get 50ish MPG. It's a kind of happy medium with space, weight, no charging much lower emissions.

Can't wait to see a Sodium Ion battery hybrid and how that does since it's capable of "charging faster", so I wonder if somehow it could use more battery assist while using engine momentum and/or regenerative braking to recoup energy quicker- which in turn gives even higher potential ranges. I'm hoping for 70mpg+ in a mid-size sedan! 🤞

[–] sparkyshocks@lemmy.zip 1 points 3 hours ago

A lot of the grid power still based on fossil fuels or coal

Even if you of a long tailpipe emissions analysis of pure coal power, the total emissions are still lower than a comparable gasoline powered engine.

Coal emits about 2.31 lbs (1.05 kg) of carbon dioxide per kwh.

Gasoline emits about 20 lbs (8.9 kg) of carbon dioxide per gallon burned.

So a car that gets 3.5 miles per kWh and is purely charged on coal emits about 0.3 kg of carbon per mile. A car that runs on gasoline and gets 30 miles per gallon is about the same.

In comparison, natural gas is about 0.96lbs of CO2 per kWh, so that EV charged on natural gas would emit roughly the same as a 74 mile per gallon vehicle.

Note that currently, in the US, coal is about 16% of electricity production, and natural gas is 41%. If you compare the emissions to the overall mix, you'll get even lower numbers for the EV emissions.

[–] AA5B@lemmy.world 1 points 12 hours ago

Sodium ion battery adoption (or similar) that has similar A. energy density, B. better capacity, C. faster charging, D. longer range

Sodium batteries have a lot of advantages and will make a huge difference when they are widely available.

But so far, power density is not one of those advantages. The technology has a great chance of taking over the bulk of EVs from LFP batteries. However longer range vehicles are (currently) using other chemistries with higher power density. We can’t know where the market will head but so far Sodium batteries are not likely for longer range EVs

[–] MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'll start by saying thank you for commenting; I don't want you to feel attacked just for engaging and giving your opinion. While your opinion is your opinion, I think there are details that can make you a little more open to EV adoption sooner rather than later, but less to convince you and more to care less because it's really not the terrible decision you seem to think it is.

For nearly every situation, your list of issues is irrelevant:

Current gen higher voltage EVs (kia/Hyundai) charge in barely more time than it takes to pump gas. But even that doesn't really matter because with the exception of this unusual road trip, I'm charging at home while I sleep. No need to even make a stop anywhere. It's also stupid cheap to charge at home. Literally about 20% cost in terms of dollars per mile compared to gas.
Ranges are getting better all the time. I have a much longer commute than most people at about 90 miles round trip. But I can plug in at home. The only time range really matters is for road trips, and if you do that a lot for whatever reason, either get used to waiting, don't buy an EV, or rent an ICE vehicle for road trips. But I'm proving to myself that road trips are feasible even with a lower range, lower voltage EV.
Yeah, fires are a concern. And also fires are a concern for ICE vehicles carrying explosive fuel. It's silly to pretend that there's a significant difference here.
I got a used 2022 with 50k miles for $19k. The cost has come down. Just stop looking at luxury/sports trims.
What serviceability? The only regular service needed is tires, brakes, lights, and wipers. And with regen braking, your friction brakes get minimal use.
This is true, but because of how it scales it's significantly more green to charge a thousand EVs with a combined cycle gas plant than to put gas into a thousand gas cars.
I'm not gonna pretend that EVs aren't heavier, and I'm not even saying that 20% heavier isn't a lot. But it's not like they're 50-100% heavier. My EV is slightly smaller than my RAV4 was, but it feels about the same weight. I guess I don't see the point of this point? The weight difference is like having two or three adults in the back seat. I don't think most people drive differently in that situation.

Your wish list isn't really realistic or necessary. I'd argue that widespread adoption has already happened. But I'll check each item:

Already addressed. Range and charge times are fine for almost everybody almost all of the time. Working on this wouldn't be a bad idea, but if it costs significantly more to get an extra 100 miles of range, who is willing to pay for it?
Why would better hybrid tech lead to more EV adoption? I'm not against having this as an option, but it's way more headache than just an EV would be.
Propane based charging? Like having a generator with gas on board? You're describing a plug in hybrid and they're not great.
I'm all for more renewables. Have market pricing roll out, and normalize home battery backups instead of backup generators and we'll flatten the duck curve in no time. Charge home and car overnight and sip home battery power during the day.
This is what it would take to replace occupational vehicles like trucks, but I think it's a waste of time and money to even think about this for the average driver. If 200+kV or maybe one day double that become the norm, then there's no way that a battery hot swap could be faster and safer than just charging. I can't stress this enough: current gen kia/hyundai EVs charge from 10% to 80% in 18 minutes with a range well over 300 miles. So you charge at home to 100%, drive FIVE HOURS STRAIGHT, charge for 18 minutes, and you can go another four hours. That 18 minute charge time is passive while you run in to poop and order a sandwich. The range/charge time problem has been solved!

To be clear, as I've said before elsewhere, it does not make sense to buy an EV unless you can charge at home. And it might not make sense to switch unless you already need a new vehicle. I opted to sell my RAV4 because it was still in great shape and was therefore still worth a lot. I sold my 2016 RAV4 with like 70k miles for $14k and got my 2022 Bolt EUV with 50k miles for $19k. It cost me $5k. Great deal. And this road trip is the only time I've ever needed to stop and charge anywhere but home. This is the stress test, and it's barely an inconvenience, even with my below average range and charge speed.

I don't expect to change your mind. If it doesn't work for your lifestyle, I don't think anything will ever or should ever change your mind. If you just don't trust it for whatever reason, nobody is pushing you to choose it, but I think that a lot of your concerns here aren't or at least shouldn't be concerns. The more I was reading up on this before making a decision for myself, the more I saw that it really doesn't take much to make the change, and it's a net benefit for almost everybody to do so. Ironically, cities are where it doesn't work because of lagging charge-at-home options, but that's okay because cities tend to have good buses and trains. Speaking of which...

EVs are the half measure. A lot of people think that hybrids are the half measure, but they're really not. We should be aiming for public transportation for local stuff like shopping and commuting, and low cost high speed rail for long distance to replace road trips. There is absolute no reason why we can't expect our country to make this a reality. Our car-obsessed culture and infrastructure is poisoning us, killing us, stunting our economic and cultural growth.

It won't be long before the chokehold on the strait of Hormuz ripples to increased shipping costs, rippling to even more "supply chain" price hikes. Oil is a limited resource, and it's probably a good idea to transition away where we pretty easily can. Medical grade plastics are harder to replace than oil and gas for our cars, and our addiction-like dependence on oil for every little thing is making us vulnerable to fragile bottlenecks. Without getting too deep into politics, if the current events of this year along with gas prices aren't enough to encourage people to look more closely into how EVs could work in their lives, then those people will probably dig their heels in and pay $10/gallon before acknowledging that they're holding out for a Grand Canyon road trip that's getting harder and harder to afford in the first place.

Maybe some of your concerns have been massaged, and maybe you'll be ready to reevaluate again within the next couple years. Idk, it's your choice and only you know what your personal needs are, but I hate to see oil/gas talking points propagating without clarification or challenge. A lot of people believe it and repeat it, but the raw numbers and testimony unravel the vast majority of it. I encourage anybody who wants to understand this better to check out the YouTube channels Climate Town and Technology Connections. They discuss other stuff too, but most EV focused channels I've seen are either too dry or are generally unconvincing. Like one channel said that it's more efficient in an EV to accelerate quickly up to cruising speed, but aside from maybe miniscule savings in terms of time spent on climate control, I just don't see it.

Apologies for the absurdly long comment!

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today 2 points 16 hours ago

Oh, Bolt, OK so it must've been the Volt that was "electric" but when the battery was low it ran a small gas generator to generate electric to extend the range iirc. To me, that's still more or less hybrid as you're using a combination of energy sources. So my thought was propane that burns cleaner could replaced that gas engine to be better overall. With the better batteries and improved engineering on engines, I could see 70+miles becoming achievable. The hope is that adoption grows enough, cutting dependency on oil, and a demand drops, so would the price of oil.

That's good about the charging faster, I didn't realize charge speeds were that improved so that's good.

[–] nublug@piefed.blahaj.zone 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

incredibly confusing* comment.

it's too heavy? grid power fossil fuels? did you use ai to make this list? actually, i kinda hope you did, because yikes. 'often times lack of servicability in certain areas'? what the fuck are you even saying? you want a propane based generator but lament grid fossil fuels? bro, this is utter nonsense.

*edit: original unnecessarily harsh, apologies.

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today -3 points 1 day ago (3 children)

Clearly you're a city dweller who doesn't understand people don't all live in or near a major city smh.

A. Yes, apparently you didn't realize that electric vehicle are often significantly heavier due to the massive battery packs. Look up the GMC Hummer weight, Cybertruck, even the Model Y is over 4000lbs (1891kg). This stresses smaller roads or did streets that aren't built for the additional weight (some trucks surpassing 6000lbs) as well as the higher cost of special tires to handle the load and replacing more often.

B. Yes, not only are a lot of power plants burning fossil fuels, Trump rolled back regulations on coal, oil, and Natural gas, so they're being used A LOT more now. Not everything is wind, solar, hydro, or nuclear. OH, also, xAI is using jet turbines to power its AI data centers in TX. I think it's over 30 now. Task about a waste of fossil fuel... LPG, btw, is a by-product of the refining of natural gas, but burns far cleaner than oil with a lot less emissions. It could function as a direct oil replacement. If you ever rent a truck from Home Depot or Lowes, many of this are converted to propane to be cheaper to refuel.

C. Fuck no did I use AI for that list.

D. I had a customer buy an all electric KIA or Hyundai model a few years ago and when her battery had issues, the nearest dealer was over 50 miles away that has a certified tech to work on it. She eventually got the dealer to trade it back and got the hybrid. Now yes, this was a few years ago 2023) but still, not interested until other areas have improved.

So no, not utter nonsense, you're just not educated or understand anything outside you're little bubble.

[–] prettybunnys@piefed.social 5 points 1 day ago (2 children)

You seem pretty hostile which makes your statements come off as hate rather than anything else

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 day ago (3 children)

He's just fishing for excuses, they always default to an anecdotal story about a guy with an EV that is fabricated.

[–] MBech@feddit.dk 2 points 16 hours ago

I have talked to a bunch of mechanics through the years. All of them told me to not buy an EV, because they once got one into their shop with a fucked battery, that cost a lot to replace. They seemingly don't understand survivorship bias (or I suppose the opposite) when it's an EV. Same people have seen brand new engines rendered completely useless, but no. It's always a single broken battery that's their reason for never owning an EV...

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today 1 points 17 hours ago

Right, my story about the Hyundai was TOTALLY fabricated, you're so right! Definitely not a real-life run-in while working in the insurance world dealing with 100s of customers on a monthly basis.

Here's another made up one just for fun and rather irrelevant. A guy had his Tesla serviced at work (I guess they came out to him bc there's no dealership technically?) and noticed when he got back to his car, it was in a different spot. Customer asked how it drove and the tech said he didn't need to drive it. Confused, the customer asked why his car was moved then and the tech got a little defensive. Customer dropped it, not wanting to cause trouble.

Comes in to my office a few days later, says he noticed some damage to his car, and tried to check camera footage, all of it was erased, like, nothing at all left. Called tesla and asked about recovering recordings and the data and they're no help. Says impossible. 2nd level tech "restores" it and gives him a download link. Customer manages to get on flash drive but not know how to use it. Asked for help while filing a claim. All the video was for the complete wrong dates. In the end, no claim filed as there's no real evidence or proof, and didn't want to claim hit-and-run at work, either. I don't recall, but idk if there was a way to check daily mileage on the app or something as proof more miles were driven on one day than another.

So basically tech took for a drive, caused damage, flees, parks it in wrong spot, wipes any video evidence, plays dumb. I think it's super shady of Tesla to give techs remote access to get in anyone's car, plus, I mean it's run by a psycho pedo, so..

I enjoy my privacy, I enjoy keeping big brother at a distance. I am decently versed in both IT and insurance and knowing all the data these companies have on us is disgusting. I might even go as far as any "new" car to me, requesting any modems or eSIM be deactivated.

[–] prettybunnys@piefed.social 1 points 1 day ago

I CANT BELIEVE ANYONE WOULD DO SOMETHING I WOULDNT DO

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today 0 points 17 hours ago

Only hostile towards the ai.

[–] urandom@lemmy.world 2 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

B: so you’d rather have pollution at the plant and at home (though your car), rather than just at the plant? Got it

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today -1 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

No, I'd rather not destroy the grid with the lack of support for ask these BEVs, depleting rare lithium, and work to resolve issues a stated above. Charging, OP pointed out, is at least greatly improved. But I don't think several million cars/trucks, etc needing to tax the grid along with issues trying to support data centers, is the right path. Ask that means is the cost of electricity would sharply rise as everyone become dependent on that.

Overall, I think we need to focus on improving batteries, charging capability, and self a sufficient-ish with a hybrid system of sorts. Personally, I live in a truck and large SUV area and it freaking annoys me everyone buys stupidly large cars. New truck hoods are the height of my roof of my sedan. I wish people would go back to smaller more economical vehicles.

[–] urandom@lemmy.world 0 points 6 hours ago (1 children)

Your original point was about pollution. Now it suddenly shifted to the grid infrastructure and the rare (one of the most common elements on earth…) lithium.

Thanks. I’ve heard enough.

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today 0 points 2 hours ago

Smh, my original post had many points. You're the one who said pollution.

[–] nublug@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

A: complete non-issue.

B: entirely separate fight from ev vs ice vehicles. xai running methane generators doesn't fuel evs anyway, why bring that up like it's relevant? you choosing ice over ev isn't helping the problem, either. and even if the only way we had to make electricity at all was fossil fuels, evs would still be more effiicient because power plants run huge generators at stable rates for peak efficiencies for far more power per unit of fossil fuel even accounting for power conversion loss. you also save on transporting tanker trucks of gas vs electricity over power lines.

C: good, but also yikes.

D: okay, this one is valid. it just made no sense as you first wrote it. still a minor inconvenience especially considering how fewer moving parts means far less often maintenance in the first place. and it's another area like charging stations that has rapidly become more and more of a non-issue as adoption of the tech spreads.

i'll give a pass on the insulting, as i regrettably went there first.

[–] Bell@lemmy.world 15 points 1 day ago

I've driven as far as NE Florida to Birmingham and Fla to Maryland in my Tesla. On a long trip, I basically have to take 30 or 40 minutes to charge after 3 or 4 hours of driving. This is fine with me. 98% of my driving is when I've charged at home.

With an EV, I'm also trading for a vehicle with: 1/10 the number of moving parts, basically zero maintenance besides tires, no noise, no emissions, and no gas to buy. EVs are not at all perfect but they are way smarter than ICE vehicles right now.

[–] perishthethought@piefed.social 4 points 1 day ago (1 children)

This 'better wait another few years'answer is straight out of the ol oil and gas playbook.

Ignore this tool.

[–] unitedwithme@lemmy.today -1 points 1 day ago

Glad you're an expert. I don't like oil any more than most, it's just not logical for a lot of the country right now. Live in a city, sure, a lot of short distance driving. Many are not so fortunate for the pros to outweigh the cons yet.

[–] Strider@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

I'm not going into detail of all the assumptions you made but let me just say there's statistically a huge amount of combustion cars burning every day. It's just normalized.

[–] SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 1 points 1 day ago

How about foot massages and BJs?