this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2024
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The blue LED was supposed to be impossible—until a young engineer proposed a moonshot idea.

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[–] sebinspace@lemmy.world 239 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Really annoying that the company shat on him for years, and continued to do so after he multiplied the value of the company. Toxic behavior.

[–] avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 155 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

It's an extreme example that perfectly illustrates how profit is extracted from employees by the employers. He didn't have any leverage to get a larger share of the profit from his labor, as is the case with most employees. You could call it toxic behavior, and it is, but it's the expected behavior, the behavior incentivised by the system.

[–] Cethin@lemmy.zip 70 points 10 months ago (19 children)

It also shows how capitalism hinder innovation. It doesn't create it. The potentially innovative path took money without any guarantee of creating profit. It's bad business to be innovative. Capitalism prioritizing profit never chooses the best path, even if it gets a good ending eventually despite itself.

[–] iopq@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago (18 children)

It's a capitalist company that funded him to go to Florida and bought him the machine to do his work.

Where do you think he would get the 3 million the company gave him? It's the company that spent that money to bet on innovation and they got a return on investment

Capitalism never chooses the best path, but neither does any other system. We haven't invented a perfect system, and it's probably impossible. Sounds like a strange critique since we'll never reach perfection

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[–] admiralteal@kbin.social 50 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Makes me presume power harassment.

On the flip side, he was using up millions and millions of company dollars on his singleminded pursuit with no obvious results to show for it. Had things gone even a little differently, things would've gone very differently indeed. Hard to imagine most companies tolerating an employee flat ignoring instruction to change to another task when their old task was proving fruitless.

Hindsight is clear enough here, but in context it was pretty nuts what the guy was doing.

Makes you wonder how many great inventors of revolutionary tech were shoved off their path by dumb luck.

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[–] pedestrian@links.hackliberty.org 135 points 10 months ago (5 children)

Shuji Nakamura was a researcher at Nichia who was determined to create the first blue LED, which had eluded scientists for decades. Through innovative crystal growth techniques and materials discoveries, he succeeded in developing bright blue and white LEDs in the early 1990s. This breakthrough enabled LEDs to be used for full-spectrum lighting. Nichia's fortunes grew enormously as a result, though Nakamura was not properly compensated for his invention. Today, LEDs powered by Nakamura's blue LED technology are ubiquitous and have brought enormous energy savings worldwide.

Something interesting I found was that Nakamura persisted in his research for blue LEDs against the wishes of his company management, who saw it as a waste of resources. His stubbornness and belief in his work paid off by solving a problem that had stumped the electronics industry for 30 years.

[–] Steak@lemmy.ca 124 points 10 months ago (24 children)

He really got screwed. They didn't want him even working on blue LEDs and then when he was right and actually made one they gave him nothing and made hundreds of millions of dollars. Then sued him when he left to work for another company for "leaking company secrets" which was really all his work. He counter sued and the courts awarded him like 189 million, then the company counter sued back and he got 8 million which just covered his legal fees.

[–] fluxion@lemmy.world 25 points 10 months ago

Wow... for brief, fleeting moment i thought justice prevailed in the end. Silly me.

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[–] Kbobabob@lemmy.world 31 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

Is this an AI generated comment? It sure reads like one.

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[–] Dmian@lemmy.world 125 points 10 months ago (3 children)

The blue led was released in 1993. I remember reading an article in Wired magazine (back when magazines were published on paper) about the invention. Gladly, the article is still available online: https://www.wired.com/1995/03/blue-laser/

I talked with some friends about the “true boo-roo” led, and the phrase stuck with us (that’s why I still remember the article). At the time (almost 30 years ago) we had no idea how important the invention was, even when we realized that it allowed for rgb led light.

But we had no idea leds would be miniaturized to be used in screens and be as ubiquitous as they are today. Living through all this technology evolution has been quite the ride.

[–] FrostyCaveman@lemm.ee 15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

That was a great read, thanks. It made me realise I don’t even remember the last time I changed a light bulb!

[–] SeaJ@lemm.ee 15 points 10 months ago (2 children)

I wish I could say the same. I have had one of two that had circuits that burned out. One was cheap and not surprising. The other was a Hue. Speaking of Hues, mine all seemed to stop working with Google Home and one even decided it would permanently be disco time and continually flashes. Zigbee compatible bulbs only from now on for me.

[–] targetx@programming.dev 13 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Aren't all Hue bulbs Zigbee? They have some WiFi or bluetooth models now I believe but afaik all of them support Zigbee with a bridge.

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[–] Diplomjodler@feddit.de 14 points 10 months ago (1 children)

I remember reading about this stuff since the eighties and people had a pretty clear idea of the implications.

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[–] Clent@lemmy.world 98 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Excellent counter example to anyone claiming that we need patent and copyright to innovate.

This man made nothing on his invention and was not motivated by money but fame.

There are endless of examples of how those who do things for money hold back the creativity that leads to innovation. This is one of them. It almost didn't happen because his pursuit was not seen as profitable.

[–] faultyproboscus@sh.itjust.works 45 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Sure, but the company fronted the millions of dollars required to develop the technology. The investment needs to come from somewhere.

That doesn't have to be a private company, though. We need public funding that retains the patent rights, if not just to make the invention free from licensing costs to manufacture.

The insane thing about our current system is that we do have public funding, but private companies wind up with the patent anyway

[–] Clent@lemmy.world 48 points 10 months ago (2 children)

The company didn't invent it. A person did. The company almost stopped it from being invented. They didn't spend millions inventing this. A person spent tens of thousands of hours inventing it.

That the funding is only available from a company is a result of the patent system. It does not spur development, it perverts it. Any ideas to the contrary are propaganda.

People have been inventing shit longer than corporations have existed. People have been inventing things without any guarantee on return on investment for most of human history.

Capitalism is bullshit and the capitalization of ideas harms humanity.

[–] lud@lemm.ee 17 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

Maybe they didn't invent it. But he wouldn't and couln't have invented it without them.

Someone would have invented it eventually though.

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[–] VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago (1 children)

This man made nothing on his invention and was not motivated by money but fame.

And then he sued the company for $20 million because the CEO didn't want to respect his efforts and stiffed him.

[–] Clent@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago (3 children)

And the amount he actually won only covered the legal fees, so he made nothing.

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[–] rob_t_firefly@lemmy.world 74 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (3 children)

My favorite thing about widely-available blue LEDs was the effect on TV scifi.

Watch the Star Trek shows made in the 1980s and 1990s and the tricorders, alien gadgets, and other props were always twinkling with red, yellow, and green LEDs to look futuristic. A generation later and every single hand prop on 2000s Doctor Who, Torchwood, etc. glowed and twinkled blue because the LEDs had just become cheap enough for prop makers, but weren't yet widespread in day-to-day life so the viewers were seeing something strange and unusual.

Now every color of LED imaginable is just common and whatever, but for a good stretch of time glowy blue became the standard "scifi" color just because that particular tech happened to turn up at that particular time.

[–] aStonedSanta@lemm.ee 16 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Purple still seems to be a tough one for most rgb devices I’ve used lol

[–] filcuk@lemmy.zip 13 points 10 months ago (6 children)

They're still rgb plus maybe yw using colour mixing, so depending on the quality, tuning, physics and our perceptionof light, not all colours are as nice or bright.

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[–] Agent641@lemmy.world 66 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Making blue LEDs is easy. Just make a red one, then move towards it really fast.

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[–] boredtortoise@lemm.ee 57 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (4 children)

It seems that the blue led is picked by many manufacturers now for its coolness factor. There are so many appliances people have in sleeping areas with blue lights glaring and disturbing sleep

[–] AtmaJnana@lemmy.world 22 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago)

I carry a bit of gaffer's tape everywhere for those little obnoxious blue bastards.

[–] PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 13 points 10 months ago* (last edited 10 months ago) (1 children)

It’s such a big problem that there’s literally LED dimming tape on the market. It’s semi-transparent tape that you stick over the blue LEDs, to knock them down to a more reasonable brightness. It’s akin to putting sunglasses on your appliances.

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[–] JATtho@lemmy.world 56 points 10 months ago (9 children)

This was an yet another glorious episode from veritasium.

I hope we get well past UVC LEDs. (i.e., shorter wavelengths) UV LEDs are already available. Unfortunately, this progress will stop before X-ray light. With +1 KeV energy, you pretty much must blast off the electrons from the atoms to emit X-rays, which an x-ray tube already does. Or by peeling off a piece of scotch tape.

[–] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 48 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Maybe making X-ray emitters cheap enough to put in a flashlight isn't the best idea anyway.

[–] JATtho@lemmy.world 28 points 10 months ago (3 children)

Maybe not in a flashlight, but the scientific industry would be very pleased with them. Sterilize water and all surfaces in a second? Flash with 200nm light.

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[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 15 points 10 months ago (6 children)

How about cheap enough to put in a fleshlight?

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[–] TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 16 points 10 months ago

More efficient compact X-ray generators would be pretty huge for science work. We run the diffractometer in my lab at 2 kW and it still takes hours to get a good quality scan

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[–] lvxferre@mander.xyz 49 points 10 months ago

A few details as further info, focusing mostly on the technical aspects:

It's considerably easier to decrease the band gap than to increase it. Decreasing it only requires that you insert some material to provide an intermediate band, while increasing it would likely need alloying it to force some structural change.

The material being in the right band gap is not enough. You need to make sure that it can be p-doped and n-doped, that its crystalline structure is stable even with some temperature variation. Ah, it should be also relatively straightforward to produce industrially.

Then you get the little gem that Nakamura found.

[–] Damdy@lemmy.world 49 points 10 months ago

Haven't watch the video yet, but I remember how impressed my step dad was with the blue LED when we got our PlayStation 2. I was like, yeah great whatever let's play games, at the time.

[–] Chozo@kbin.social 28 points 10 months ago

I love Veritasium's deep dives into the scientists behind various inventions. We really ought to celebrate more people like Nakamura.

[–] Lanky_Pomegranate530@midwest.social 22 points 10 months ago (1 children)

Here is an Odysee Link for those that don't want to give youtube support.

[–] porkchop@lemm.ee 20 points 10 months ago (4 children)

Just a PSA for those who don’t know… no shade against Odysee… I’ve just encountered folks here who don’t know this:

Veritassium and many others on YouTube make their living by the advertising shown on YT. If you’re a premium member, even more money goes to the creator when you watch their content. It’s this very money that allows independent creators to create more / better content!

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[–] Clanket@lemmy.world 17 points 10 months ago (6 children)

That was an excellent watch, thanks for sharing.

YouTube is horrendous for ads though.

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[–] Petter1@lemm.ee 15 points 10 months ago

Capitalism is just sad

[–] KyuubiNoKitsune@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 10 months ago (3 children)

The first blue LED I ever saw was on the dashboard of my mom's VW Golf. I always wanted one like that, but now they're everywhere!

[–] JoMomma@lemm.ee 17 points 10 months ago (2 children)
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[–] PipedLinkBot@feddit.rocks 13 points 10 months ago (2 children)

Here is an alternative Piped link(s):

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