this post was submitted on 20 Aug 2023
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Either it didn't teach you anything at all, or it taught you the most irrelevant parts of the game.

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[–] TehPers@beehaw.org 44 points 1 year ago (6 children)

Minecraft. Back when I started playing, it wouldn't even tell you what recipes existed, yet gave you a 2x2/3x3 grid with hundreds of types of items/blocks to figure it out yourself.

Still one of my favorite games though.

[–] navi@lemmy.tespia.org 9 points 1 year ago

Honestly a large part of my nostalgia was scouring the Minecraft wifi for updates and recipes.

[–] storm_koala@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago

Without external resources I would probably never have figured out what the 2x2 empty grid in my inventory was meant to be! I watched so many videos and read numerous wiki articles it could have been a college class.

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[–] BentiGorlich@gehirneimer.de 30 points 1 year ago (5 children)

All Paradox Interactive games ever created 😂
The worst I had was Hearts Of Iron IV. I played a 2h tutorial only to not understand a single thing the real game threw at me afterwards...

[–] alchemy88@lemmy.team 10 points 1 year ago (3 children)

This I agree with. Stellaris is very confusing starting out and such a huge learning curve the tutorial just doesn't cover.

[–] CrateDane@feddit.dk 5 points 1 year ago

Stellaris is far from the worst offender, and yet you're still entirely right.

[–] Rinnarrae@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

It's not nearly as complex as it initially looks imo, but I also play with a million mods some of which make the game needlessly complicated so maybe the vanilla game just looks simple in comparison to me now lol

[–] soulsource@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Also, the tutorial has suffered bitrot quite a lot. The game has seen many significant changes since release, but the tuturial was only partially updated to reflect them.

[–] alchemy88@lemmy.team 3 points 1 year ago

Yeah I think this is a big one for me.

I come back after a major patch or every 6 months and its all changed again! Which is good as it keeps it fresh, but the tutorial is very lacking on the changes.

[–] AdellcomdoisL@beehaw.org 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Some Paradox games literally teach you how to play wrong, CKII being an example IIRC

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[–] EvaUnit02@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I adore those games, and while I think they've made great strides with CKIII and Vicky 3, I agree that the tutorials are severely lacking.

[–] Uncle_Bagel@midwest.social 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You gotta just start with an easy country. The CK2 community used to call Ireland "Tutorial Island" since it was low key and a good place to learn the mechanics, same with Spain in EU, or Belgium in Vicky.

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[–] sapo@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Thank god that's changing tho. CK3 and (though to a lesser extent) Vicky 3 both have relatively decent tutorials.

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[–] Plibbert@lemmy.ml 3 points 1 year ago

I still don't know how to play hearts of iron IV. I'd love to learn but I'm a trial by fire learner. It's really hard for me to make it through a 2hr YouTube tutorial with monotonous robot voices.

[–] AdellcomdoisL@beehaw.org 28 points 1 year ago

Warframe explains very little of its systems, and what it explains is generally poorly done. Upgrading and optimizing your abilities, acquiring proper mods and frames, how the levelling system actually works, generally anything that isn't "shoot at enemy until it dies" needs to be taught by another player or read upon.

[–] dQw4w9WgXcQ@lemm.ee 17 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Kerbal Space Program.

Basically "do rocket science without instructions".

[–] brihuang95@sopuli.xyz 17 points 1 year ago (4 children)

The game that comes to mind is Dark Souls. They teach you the bare bones of the controls and that's it.

Nothing about where to go, what stats to level up, ways to defeat specific enemies, what spells/elemental attacks to use, etc.

I had to Google a lot of things in the beginning.

[–] Skua@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I still don't know what the fuck the intended use of Resistance is

[–] CylustheVirus@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

A trap for the unwary.

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[–] Limeaide@beehaw.org 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't have an exact answer, but there are a lot of games that you need the wiki up on your second monitor for. Their tutorials teach you the basic controls, but nothing about what you're supposed to do or anything like that.

I feel it's kinda lazy on the developer's side and leave it to the community to do their job. You see a 5-10 min video on youtube explaining everything, yet the developer couldn't do that?

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[–] Rozauhtuno@lemmy.blahaj.zone 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I can't believe no one said Crusader Kings 2 nor Dwarf Fortress yet. The tutorial in CK II is so bad, it somehow makes thing more confusing, it is much better to just start a game in an easy location like Ireland and learn the game by yourself.

Dwarf Fortress has a tutorial nowadays, but I started playing it many years ago when you had no choice but to alt-tab to the wiki and figure out things on your own.

[–] CrateDane@feddit.dk 4 points 1 year ago

The tutorial in CK II is so bad

You can't just talk that way about Ireland.

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[–] PonyOfWar@pawb.social 13 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Mario & Luigi: Dream Team Bros, because the tutorials never stop. Even 20 hours into the game, it will explain which button to press in exhausting detail every single time. Gave up the game due to this.

On the opposite side, ΔV: Rings of Saturn. The tutorial does a really bad job of explaining the (very unusual) controls of the game. Worse, you can accidentally leave the area during the tutorial, which cancels the tutorial altogether so you have to restart the game. That happened to me twice. Third time was the charm though, and I did enjoy the game afterwards.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago

Sunset Overdrive.

Tutorial: Go from point A to point B.

Dies.
Dies.
Dies.

Failed to tell you the game operates under "ground is lava" rules. You are to go from point A to point B without touching the ground.

[–] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So many I can't even narrow down a specific one. Many new titles have tutorials that go over generic bullshit like how to move and aim and then don't tell you how to do anything that's actually unique to the game itself. I hate that shit.

Really hate having a tutorial objective of "put the goober in the jibjab" but then it doesn't explain what the fuck either of those things are, and it's not obvious by just looking at the situation.

Oh, The Ascent did this. Tells you to hack something early on; does not tell you how this is achieved. Everything up to that point was walk up to thing and press A/X. To hack you have to HOLD A/X. But it doesn't say that. I had to look it up online. Which is stupid.

Dark Souls also. But... It's hard to be mad at that one, since being vague is literally purposeful game design with those. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[–] shnizmuffin@lemmy.inbutts.lol 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Elite: Dangerous (pre-Horizons DLC). They teach you how to fly forward and maybe auto-dock.

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[–] Pseu@beehaw.org 8 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dwarf Fortress (before the Steam edition.) There was no in-game tutorial. I found a 2 hour long fanmade tutorial on Youtube, and even after that I had to learn a lot of stuff from the wiki.

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[–] Skyline969@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Diablo 2. The extent of which you're given instruction is "here's a stick, go whack stuff."

Stat points? Better hope that you get it right the first time - you get three resets per character (unless you get a Token of Absolution which is a super late game item). Hell, before a certain patch this wasn't even a thing. Do it right the first time or you're restarting.

Same goes for skill points. Wanna put one point into everything, try it out before committing? Well those are now wasted points. Stats and skills get reset at the same time though, so you're not entirely screwed.

Rune words! The game tells you literally nothing about rune words and yet no build is complete without them. You get three runes that make up a rune word in Act 5 if you complete an optional quest. You're not told what to do with them, or that they must be in the right order (which the game does not provide), or that they must go in a normal, non-magic shield with exactly three sockets. Or that if you imbue the item after building the rune word you lose the rune word's effects. Put them in the wrong order? Bricked it - you cannot remove gems or runes from sockets. Or you can, but it destroys the socketed gems/runes. And you can only do so using....

Cube recipes. You get a cube, you use it a few times in the game. You're never told that it can be used to upgrade items, combine gems and runes, repair gear, craft items, or take you to the secret cow level.

If you never did extensive research on Diablo 2 before and while playing, you would be playing maybe a quarter of the actual game.

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[–] johnthedoe@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

Most if not all game prior to like 2000 didn’t give you tutorials. I guess they were in the booklet that came with the game so not in the game.

Super Mario Bros on NES starting point is the best. Simple and allowed people to die repeatedly to learn what the game is about.

[–] all-knight-party@kbin.cafe 7 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Can't believe it's not in here yet, but Monster Hunter. I find the eventual understanding of the gameplay loop to not actually be as complex as I thought it'd be, but getting a good overview of all what you want to do and use isn't really possible even in the latest entries, just specific information about specific mechanics.

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[–] Crotaro@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Does anyone remember Driver on the, I think, PS1? I mean the tutorial wasn't awful because it's irrelevant but because it's notoriously difficult to beat.

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[–] GolGolarion@pathfinder.social 5 points 1 year ago (2 children)

If you've never played Fear and Hunger, it's really easy to assume that there's no tutorial. At the very start of the game, a pack of angry dogs appears and mauls you to death. If you go through the front door, the pack of angry dogs follows you and mauls you to death. You can escape from the dogs in battle, but they'll keep chasing you on the overworld until they maul you to death.

The lesson the game wants to teach you is "Hey, don't stick around and fight enemies that will maul you to death", and "Hey, you should actually check out the side passages instead of the obvious way forward" because the dogs will not maul you to death if you dip into the side passage in the very first area. The game has a lot of such side passages that you need to look for later on that will save you so much grief, but you have no way but to intuit that this is something to look for in the first place after being mauled to death by dogs a few times.

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[–] gratux@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Witcher 3. Just huge walls of text, teaching you the most intricate details of some mechanics, and not enough for others.

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[–] MadMenace@beehaw.org 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not awful but, I'm playing Xenoblade Chronicles 3 now, 10 hours in and the game is still introducing new mechanics. This is undoubtedly the longest tutorial I've ever done.

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[–] megapenguinx@reddthat.com 5 points 1 year ago

Pretty much any of the souls games or something like Viewtiful Joe

[–] khalic@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago
[–] ampersandrew@kbin.social 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Skullgirls, which is now my favorite game, scares people away with its tutorial, so I ended up making my own for it instead. It was through resources for a bunch of other fighting games that I ended up realizing what I wasn't understanding about Skullgirls.

Honestly, you could probably just put fighting games here in general. Understanding what it means for a move to be plus on block is super important, but most new players will have no idea what that means. I can only name one game, Fantasy Strike, that teaches you to jump to escape command grabs.

[–] JillyB@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago

Came here to say fighting games. SF6 is attempting to address this with the whole single player mode. The Battle Hub also serves as a better spot for casuals. I'm hopeful that more fighting games take a better approach to teaching the game. When I first booted SFV, there was a 2 minute tutorial teaching you how to move and block and then it just cuts you loose. We're likely in the next golden age of fighting games. It would be a shame if Tekken fumbled the bag with poor new player on-boarding.

[–] Shettyhengst@feddit.de 4 points 1 year ago

Fallout 2. That Game has the Opposite of a Tutorial. It does Not explain anything and throws you immediately into a Dungeon where you are supposed to solve it with specific skills. Can be really annoying If you have the wrong skills. It was literally tacked onto the Game because the Publisher demanded it. Love the Game, but the Temple of Trials ist one of the worst Things in the entire Series.

[–] fl1ghtless@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

DayZ comes to mind. I love the game but it kind of just throws you in and says , "Hey there. Survive."

[–] ursakhiin@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Anybody who hasn't seen Steel Battalion should go watch a video of a first play through.

They really assume the player is going to read (have) the manual for that game and have a series dig at you if you don't.

[–] Evergreen5970@beehaw.org 4 points 1 year ago

Dragon’s Dogma, at least if you’re trying to play as a mage. How do I target my spells? How do I even switch to the new spells I bought? That was a trip to the wiki and then r/DragonsDogma for me.

[–] TheEntity@kbin.social 3 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Deus bloody Ex, the first one. Both the tutorial and the first mission are mostly useless and many players outright drop the game during the first mission. Afterwards the game shows its true colours, but the beginning is just rough.

[–] Die4Ever@programming.dev 4 points 1 year ago

I always thought Deus Ex's tutorial was pretty good and well made, although it doesn't tell you anything about computers/hacking

https://youtu.be/ziWIU-M7DBk

I just think it's impossible to make a tutorial that will prepare players for how open Liberty Island is lol

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[–] soulsource@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago

Cultist Simulator. However, finding out how stuff works is half the game...

(The devs also posted a manual meanwhile, that explains the most obsucre mechanics.)

[–] loops@beehaw.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Cliff Empire. I'm still on the tutorial technically, I think. There was one part where I had to produce 250 extra power (250 kW I think?), and even though I had used up all the available space pretty effectively, I never got above ~120. So, I went ahead and started building a nuclear reactor... which only got me to ~170. I eventually passed that step somehow. I think it was because there were more people? Anyway, after that I clicked through all the steps I passed (about 20 of them) before I was producing anything close to 250 'power' and I'm pretty sure I missed something; because my reactor caught on fire and exploded. Turns out the fire fighting drones never got water, because apparently I have to set it's delivery priority manually... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So I rage quit, and here I am complaining about it. Beautiful game though.

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