this post was submitted on 27 Feb 2024
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130
Elon Musk’s Vegas Tunnel Project Has Been Racking Up Safety Violations (www.bloomberg.com)
submitted 8 months ago by alyaza@beehaw.org to c/technology@beehaw.org
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The [tunnel's] accelerants cure the grout that seals the tunnel’s concrete supports, helping the grout set properly and protecting the work against cracks and other deterioration. They also seriously burn exposed human skin. At the Encore dig site, such burns became almost routine, workers there told Nevada’s Occupational Safety and Health Administration. An investigation by the state OSHA, which Bloomberg Businessweek has obtained via a freedom of information request, describes workers being scarred permanently on their arms and legs. According to the investigation, at least one employee took a direct hit to the face. In an interview with Businessweek, one of the tunnel workers recalls the feeling of exposure to the chemicals: “You’d be like, ‘Why am I on fire?’”

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[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 31 points 8 months ago

I thought this whole project was just one massive safety violation? Even just one person getting a heart attack in there and you've got a problem, because emergency services literally cannot get in there, when there's other cars in the tunnel. A single fire and that tunnel is filled with smoke.

We didn't start building tunnels in a decent size and with energency exits, because we were all dumbasses. It didn't take the 'genius' of an Elon Musk to recognize that we could just hack a tiny hole into the wall. The guy is just able to build a death trap, because apparently laws are optional and human lives expendable, if you've just got the money.

[–] kandoh@reddthat.com 24 points 8 months ago (1 children)

It did it's job of shutting down public transit projects

[–] billhicksghost@beehaw.org 4 points 8 months ago

You understand Elon Musk better than most of Journalism.

"Why was commmunism so blind to it's flaws?" Have you paid attention to our society & capitalism lately?

[–] admiralteal@kbin.social 22 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

Man, I keep getting this incredibly Mandela-effect like feeling that this entire Vegas tunnel project was something I made up.

Glad to see news that it wasn't. The idea is just so colossally and obviously stupid compared to actual transit investment that it really FEELS like something a lefty type would've made up as a hypothetical to illuminate the kind of idiotic shit happens in American urban planning.

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 23 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Well, I've heard the theory that Musk made this project up, because the city wanted to build like a proper subway or something. He didn't need this ridiculous tunnel to actually work. He just needed to derail (pun intended) the sensible infrastructure project, so he could sell more shoddy cars.

[–] scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech 19 points 8 months ago

Yup, he did the same with Cali HSR. Even most current day negative statements about it are just parroted about things he said years ago. "It's too expensive", "it is going over it's timelines", "no one will use it".

Which, newsflash to people saying that, all major infrastructure projects have that said about them. Look at the Chunnel now, or most suspension bridges and tunnels in the US. They always go over budget, they are always delayed, only some people think they're useful, but after they're built people think "how did we ever live without this?"

Facts are that Elon owns a car company, so he'll say anything negative about any project that isn't going to put more cars on the road. HSR, Vegas subways, BART, he just wants us to buy more Tesla's at the expense of our own convenience and deserved infrastructure

[–] frog@beehaw.org 18 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I wasn't overly familiar with this project, but now that I've read up on it... what in the actual fuck? You could offer me the entirety of Elon Musk's ~~hoard~~ wealth and it would still not be enough to convince me to step foot in that claustophobic death trap.

The thing that really strikes me is that there seems to be very little difference between Musk going "I know how to build transport tunnels better than any of the countless engineers who have built them before!" and that Titan submarine guy going "I know how to build deep sea submersibles better than any of the countless engineers who have built them before!" And it seems likely that Musk's death trap will have a similar ending, only Musk won't be inside it at the time. Techbros seem incredibly unwilling to consider that there are often reasons why things are built the way they are.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 5 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

You have to look at the bigger picture: Musk's "I know how to build a colony on Mars better than anyone!"

That requires:

  • SpaceX: cheap reusable rockets (done)
  • StarLink: planet-wide communication network (almost done)
  • SpaceX: mass human space transport (in progress)
  • Boring: tunnels for the colony (in progress)
  • Tesla: non-fossil fuel cars, like electric (done)
  • Hyperloop: transport in a low density atmosphere (proof of concept, good enough)
  • Neuralink: robot capable of up to brain surgery (in progress)
  • Square Roots: indoor farming (done, by Elon's brother)
  • [Name pending]: ~~indentured labour~~ volunteers willing to work for the privilege (tons of applicants already)

There are some other details missing, and maybe there are other projects I'm not aware off, but the general plan is pretty clear.

[–] dubyakay@lemmy.ca 2 points 8 months ago
  • Xitter: seize the means of shitty one liner communication (done)
[–] frog@beehaw.org 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

He thinks he knows how to build a colony on Mars better than anyone. He hasn't considered that maybe there are good reasons why it hasn't been done yet. His first colony will be a death trap.

[–] aard@kyu.de 2 points 8 months ago

His first colony will be a death trap.

That's a feature, not a bug. His family got rich with mines in south africa, exploiting the locals. For getting more rich by mining mars you'll have to bring your own locals to exploit, and there's no need to make it to comfortable for them.

[–] eveninghere@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

How would people on Mars even claim their rights? I never heard a country recognize their own jurisdiction on Mars.

If Musk enslaves these people, not return them to earth, etc., how can they stop that from Mars?

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago

Poorly. There would have to be a revolution after a generation or two, might take longer.

[–] billhicksghost@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

A rocket is just a truck. A fleet of trucks don't build or make possible whatever we dream them to carry.

A giant truck doesn't meet all demands. Starlink is just the Internet and does not count towards the existing, now saturated "market".

https://youtu.be/Om90htezXLk?si=cPV3vVKVIlkKB5T1

https://youtu.be/kM0gD4-zTT8?si=t1-QPOKuQ2CSzRw5

https://youtu.be/FNt_SyJjNGw?si=SnpUnW_CZK93ZBl1 (Parts 1 & 2, etc are also sanity.)

Neurolink was an existing company, it's founder quit in shame after they faked/stole existing research. His own professor, the leading expert in the field, declared it all bunk with the metaphor "Elon Musk couldn't find a brain of he tried".

https://youtu.be/p8NiM_p8n5A?si=bCtDVkLL546je8rV

Musk is a sociopath hijacking reality so real issues are ignored.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago

Sorry, but that's too many ragebait videos, and I'm not going to debunk them one by one.

Neuralink has been FDA approved for human trials, and had its first subject implanted in January 2024. Whether it's going to end up in "death from uncontrollable vomiting", remains to be seen.

Musk is a sociopath

A businessman. 🤷

[–] iAmTheTot@kbin.social 10 points 8 months ago (3 children)

I still don't understand why this was a better idea than a train.

[–] alyaza@beehaw.org 15 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

technofetishism--if there's anything local politicians love it's sounding hip and getting Cool Headlines over boring but practical technology that actually works

[–] SecretPancake@feddit.de 2 points 8 months ago

Some of our politicians in Germany love the idea of flying taxis and monorails but "luckily" they don't like actually spending money on infrastructure so instead they opt to do nothing at all.

[–] WaterLizard@beehaw.org 5 points 8 months ago

Buzzwords sell. It's the same shit in corporate America when they went bonkers for blockchain a few years ago, only to have all that money thrown into "research" flushed down the toilet. Like gee that money should have gone into a higher corporate tax payout versus a fancy headline for shareholders.

Same thing here, but with politicians wanting something buzzy for their next election.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Trains wouldn't work on Mars (surface), too dusty.

[–] boonhet@lemm.ee 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I thought Las Vegas was on Earth, but I could be wrong as I haven't been there (to Las Vegas I mean, I've been to Earth).

Anyway, if you're already building a tunnel, you might as well put a train in it, even on Mars.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I think that's where the Hyperloop fits in: on Earth, it isn't practical to keep the required level of vacuum, but it would be quite easy on Mars. At the same time, they need to perfect the tunnel digging process, and cars are the excuse to do it on Earth.

[–] billhicksghost@beehaw.org 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

No one is colonizing anything.

https://youtu.be/U9YdnzOf4NQ?si=QxA_La0J6UVEiMZv

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 0 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Kind of ironic that video has an ad for a "mental hygiene" app... when a good first step would be not watching that sort of videos... but let's go point by point:

  • Logistics: that's SpaceX. Starship is planned to carry up to 100 people at once. As for trip duration, think XV century ships on multi-month long trips: tough, but survivable. Will need unmanned supply trips, but as it says, some could fail, just send more. Manned trips... if they're full of volunteers, some could fail too (plenty more where those came from).
  • Justification: because. Same as always: adventure, fame, science. Probably no raping indigenous population and robbing them of gold, but still. People get into F1 cars, skydive, free climb, etc. Some die, that doesn't stop the next ones.
  • Living on Mars: yes, probably in underground habitats. Definitely not "just the 1%", the plan is to have indentured labor, so everyone has a chance! (to be a slave, but on Mars) Premature death... see previous point.
  • Psychological effects: with a few hundred people, same as in any small society. Not everyone needs to be surrounded by billions of people 24/7.
  • ~~Terraforming~~: red herring. Musk doesn't have plans for that, so less BS.
  • Alternatives: night on Antarctica is 4320 hours, on the Moon it's 336 hours, night on Mars is 12 hours and 18 minutes. See the difference?
  • ~~Mars One~~: red herring. Not a Musk project, scammy from the beginning. That's two totally BS points.

It's a risky plan, but still a plan.

[–] billhicksghost@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

What absurd opening logic. The first person is a rocket engineer. He doesn't just play Kerbel Space, he designs rockets.

The schematics for Starship allows for at best 15-20 people. Supplies are a thing. The ability for humans to travel & survive for this distance is not established at all, nor is the ability to build structures, grow food, supply air & water, etc

Psychological effects: with a few hundred people, same as in any small society.

This confident nonsense is like discussing reality with an Iraq War Cheerleader Circa 2004-2007 .

There's no plan. To get to the Moon, Starship itself requires ~-15 refueling launches using a method that doesn't exist, despite the taxpayers giving the company 300+ million dollars to develop it.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago

It's a ragebait video.

This confident nonsense is like discussing reality with an Iraq War Cheerleader Circa 2004-2007.

No point in continuing it then.

[–] tesseract@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Wow! You really believe all the lies Musk says? This is the same guy who has been promising 'full software driving' next year for nearly a decade, fantasizing about downloading human memory engrams, insisting that hyperloop is 'not so hard' and says things like 'I know more about manufacturing than anyone else alive'.

How much knowledge does it take to realize that 100 people per starship is simply impossible? There simply isn't enough room. And read your statement about underground dwellings and sunlight times together to see how they're incompatible. Musk isn't saying all these because he's a dreaming visionary. He's saying these to trick other rich people into giving him more money. It has the same vibes as the monorail song.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 1 points 8 months ago

It's also the same guy deciding to build reusable self-landing rockets, or place 40,000 satellite in orbit.

He's a working visionary. Some of his visions are shit, doesn't mean all of them are.

The problem with people who "know it's impossible", is things like not realizing Starship is a ground-to-orbit delivery system, or that living in a cave is not the same as never leaving the cave, or the issue with not having access to power sources for extended periods of time in places where air supply depends on it.

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 7 points 8 months ago (1 children)

"Move fast and break things"... and by "things", they mean people.

[–] NattyNatty2x4@beehaw.org 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Hey cut Musk some slack, average people aren't actually people

[–] jarfil@beehaw.org 2 points 8 months ago

Yeah, average people are human... resources. (jk, but not really)

[–] Powderhorn@beehaw.org 6 points 8 months ago

Quelle surprise.

[–] NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 1 points 8 months ago

I often wonder why I am on fire.