Gizm0Guru

Meze 109Pro and Empyrean II

Well I have 20 different headphones haha. IMO there are parts of your question that are highly philosophical/personal and parts that are a bit more objective.

On your part about EQ. Two things. First, I know there is a group of folks in this thread that may say otherwise, but EQ is not the end all be all in sound presentation. For example, no amount of EQ is going to make my Sennheiser HD660S2 have the soundstage of the HD800S - and there are listening scenarios in which sound stage makes a big difference (for example, high quality live rock concert recordings and classical recordings) - and maybe one wants that big 800S stage when listening to stuff like that but not so much when listening to other genres. Gaming is another, just off the top. There are other things about a headphone that may not be adjustable with EQ as well such as timbre brought about by the material used in the diaphragm, its ability to layer/position pieces of the mix well, etc.

Second, EQ is not necessarily an easy thing to get into. There are different "levels" of EQ if you will, and like many things in this hobby, the "best" can be constraining. For example, I am fully in the Apple ecosystem and have multiple devices that I use both at home and on the go (I have to travel a lot for work, and sometimes just don't want to be confined to my office with my desktop gear when I'm listening at home). If I have to EQ a pair of headphones (some of which I do), I have to consider what DAC or software I'm going to use to EQ. There's a big difference between hitting a bass boost or something like that and doing a detailed EQ profile. While you may view having 5 pairs of headphones as weird, I would view spending a grand or more on a pair of expertly tuned headphones, then using a simple "rock" EQ on iOS to be even more weird lol.

This leads to my personal reasons for having the collection. Reason number one is listening flexibility. For example, when I'm in the mood to listen to some hip-hop and just want to bang out and jam, I may break out the LCD-X and EQ the heck out of it, boosting that legendary bass and lifting up the overly dark midrange. It's for sure way too bass heavy, and using EQ with my Chord Mojo 2 is fairly decent but nowhere as good as more detailed options, so I now I'm also giving up tonal accuracy in other areas to do a pleasant EQ for this listening scenario. The LCD-X does that kind of "fun" tune extremely well (because it takes EQ with almost no distortion, as you mentioned).

If I then want to listen to Adele, I could put the LCD-X back to stock (probably not with its veiled midrange) or EQ it for Adele. OR, I could break out my Focal Utopia, which has the highest vocal resolution and most natural vocal presentation I've ever heard, and also has a soundstage that puts vocals front and center (much less wide than the LCD-X). Many of those things can't be EQ'd. It's also a dynamic driver and can't reach the bass levels of the LCD-X, so I could not do the hip-hop scenario with the Utopia.

Every headphone of the 20 I own brings something unique to the presentation, and that uniqueness may work well for a range of listening scenarios - though there will also be tradeoffs. The practical part of the collection is learning the tradeoffs I'm willing to make for which listening scenarios, acquiring stuff that requires me to make less tradeoffs overall and acquiring stuff that brings new special talents to the table (hello Meze Empyrean II).

The not practical side is that this is just my chosen "thing." I believe everyone should have at least one thing he/she/they sort of geek out on, and for me, it's headphones. I would likely never tell someone that 20 pairs of headphones are a "need" - just like 100 pairs of shoes aren't either. But if you have the passion and the funds - why not? There are worse ~~addictions~~ obsessions...

Use it and love it. My Empyrean II arrived today, and now my internal debate begins about whether or not I’ll keep the 109…

Thanks! It was my typo. My Empy II’s arrive Monday. I’m giddy lol.

I never had the first ones because they seemed to be a little too extreme, but after trying the 109 Pros and enjoying them so much, plus reading about the refinements in the sequel, I’m taking the dive.

I have both, use them for different things and can definitely hear the difference.

Solid state main: Ferrum ERCO DAC/Amp. Solid state secondary/portable: Chord Mojo 2. Tube: Feliks Audio Elise MKII OTL

I use the tube to bring warmth or lushness to a listen when it’s right for the genre (for me). Sometimes it’s to change up the listen, and sometimes I wouldn’t use the headphone without it a tube or EQ.

For example - the Focal Utopia or Meze 109 Pro with EDM or hip-hop. I can use these headphones SS or tube and enjoy, but sometimes I like more prominent warmth.

Second example would be Sennheiser 660S2 and HD800S. The only way I will use these is with a tube or by adding a bass shelf with EQ. In these cases the tube is filling an actual void (for me) by both adding warmth / bass and taking a bit of bite off the highs.

I have not had great luck with planers and my tube, will be testing the Meze Empyrean on it soon.

Depends on your budget and what you mean by “best” (quantity or quality).

My favorite all around bass head headphone is the Audeze LCD-X. It needs EQ to get there, but IMO is beyond compare once EQ applied. The LCD-X is legendary for its bass and its ability to take heavy amounts of EQ without distortion. It brings that deep planar extension and can go insanely hard.

The best “balanced” or neutral bass I have heard is on the Final Audio D8000 Pro. Not super elevated but outstanding extension and dynamics.

IEMs the heavyweight of bass there for me is the Campfire Audio Trifeca. It’s a triple dynamic driver IEM. Pricey though. The Sennheiser IE900 also has outstanding bass. Slightly elevated, excellent quality.

My gift to myself this year is the Meze Empyrean II - don’t think there are any deals tho.

The Sennheiser HD800S cable is freakin terrible.

660S2, 109Pro, Empyrean II (hurry up and arrive!)

Love mine as well. These were some of the first high end cans I bought, and some 20+ pairs later, I still have them. Excellent closed back for a warm musical listen.

I have the IE900 - there’s no way the bass should come off as weak. I’d say a fit or defect issue.

I have the 800S along with a bunch of other stuff (some of which is in my flair).

My view on the 800S is that it is a competitive headphone for its price, but it depends a LOT on your setup, the type of music you listen to (genre and master/recording quality) and your listening preferences, especially around soundstage and timbre. A bit more on each.

TL;DR - It is a great headphone, but I would not call it a competitive "all around" headphone in 2023.

First is setup. Depending on your starting point, two things are likely to come up with the 800S. First is getting an amp and second is possibly looking into EQ. There are lots of good options out there in this quality range that have much lower power needs so don't necessarily need standalone amplification (reducing cost of ownership and adding other benefits like portability/general usability). This is a headphone that you will also find a lot of people EQ. Again, plenty of headphones of this quality/price range out there that more people tend to find pleasing without the use of EQ, so more work with the 800S. Depending your your setup, how well you may be able to EQ also varies. For example, if you are in the Apple ecosystem, EQ can be a real pain, or at least an added expense and device and/or software. In 2023, there are other headphones I'd put higher in the "ease of ownership/use overall" category - Focal Clear being on that other posters have mentioned (I also used to own the Clear as well).

Second is genre/recording quality. The three things you will likely find that stand out and get commented about the most about the 800s - its wide soundstage, its excellent imaging/placement performance within that soundstage and its significant lack of both bass quantity and dynamics that leads to an analytical/dry listen. That combination can make genres (generally) that are very warm and have a lot of action in the bass and sub-bass regions sound less pleasant and somewhat hollow to some - and it can be jarring. That also happens to be a lot of modern genres - hip hop, pop, alternative, EDM/electric, R&B, etc. For genres like classical, jazz, classic rock, and other genres that are largely instrumental performances that have most of the action in the mid range and high end, the 800S faces a lot less challenges.

This is why I would call it a great headphone but not an all around headphone. In my collection, it is mostly used for the genres I mentioned that are in its favor - and for those genres, IMO, few can beat it at this price range - or when I want to listen to something and get really analytical and use that soundstage to really focus on individual pieces of the mix. But, if I want to pour a drink, sit back and throw on some headphones to enjoy my favorite tune, it would only be with the genres that are good for it specifically.

All of this is subjective of course, as everything I've said is rooted in my listening preferences. There are some that value the wide soundstage and technical performance so much that they are willing to sacrifice the low end or don't particularly care for low end anyway - but I hope this helps.