cross-posted from: https://sh.itjust.works/post/65235734
On August 8, police arrived on the scene of Long Branch Lagoon Water Park in Dodge City, Kansas, to the sight of three self-described “bearded, burly men” who had been in the women’s bathroom and changing area. The manager of the municipally run property allegedly screamed and rushed children out the door.
The men knew this was likely. They didn’t agitate any of the women; they didn’t remove their clothes or make crass comments. They simply used the gendered spaces that the state of Kansas requires them to use by law, because these men are transgender.
“Supporters of SB244, including Attorney General Kris Kobach and Senate Majority Leader Ty Masterson, billed it as a way to keep men out of women’s spaces; it clearly requires some men to enter women’s spaces,” a press release sent to news outlets reads. So, these men took action—using malicious compliance to prove their point.
“Segregating people by suspected genitalia does nothing to improve public safety; it does quite the opposite by opening Kansans up to sexual harassment and discrimination. At no point should anyone be asking anyone else what genitals they have in public.”
The men, dressed in yellow “Compliance Crew” shirts, were part of a small group of trans-masculine Kansans who used the women’s room at facilities across the state that day in a coordinated action. They were also spotted at a zoo, a library, a museum, and other parks. They were in Emporia, Great Bend, Garden City, and Dodge City. At the library, at least one patron complained; at other places, the men used the bathroom and received dirty looks, and simply left the space without confrontation.
But at Long Branch Lagoon, members of the Kansas Compliance Crew resorted to having to describe their genitals to police in order to resolve the matter and avoid arrest.
“The men had a discussion with the manager and police and explained the situation, including uncomfortable descriptions of their bodies,” the press release said. Furthermore, both the manager and the police reportedly said “they had never heard of SB244 nor been notified by any government entity of its passage.”
“I could easily continue using the men’s restroom under the radar,” said Ray Vieux, who participated as one of the demonstrators.
If I were in charge bathrooms would be single rooms with nothing but a toilet.
Handwash sink is outside.
There is a person who maintains the facilities and offers a mint candy to only people who wash their hands.
If were gonna police anything in the bathrooms it should be hand washing.
In my secondary school, it was a small school as far as the building went, so to save space they operated exclusively unisex toilets.
The "bathrooms" were simply open-plan onto the main corridors, with sinks on one side, and maybe 15 individual cubicles on the other. There were no urinals, no gendered spaces, once outside the cubicle you'd be in view of anyone walking through the corridor. There were 4 stories including the ground floor, with these unisex toilets on levels 1 and 3.
Never did anything happen, never heard any complaints from anyone about them, it was, dare I say, perfect.
Petition for the abolishment of traditional gendered spaces, individual cubicles is all we need.
Our current Monkey paw Supreme Court would take your gender equality push and end up overturning Brown V Board because separate toilets have to be unequal (you know Roberts and Thomas would do it, along with the rest of the racist justices).
I like it, but I would put a urinal in as well. Not because as a male I would appreciate that more, but as a male, I've seen what other savages do to the toilet seat when they have to hit a stationary target from a couple feet away. I don't want to punish sitters with that.
Do urinals tend to stink more?
I feel like people flush less because after the pee drains out you can't see it any more, despite it still being there in the trap.
Some autoflush periodically or when you open the door.
If they are cleaned regularly, I don't think it's a problem, but auto flushers would be a solid choice. Bathrooms in the smaller gas stations along the interstate, not the truck stops, often have the worst bathrooms. You'll smell stale pee when you walk in, and it may be from the urinal, but it also could be from any other surface in there. But really, a light auto flush and regular cleaning will mitigate any stink, and if it didn't, the smell is still probably better than the aforementioned piss covered toilet seats.
I go snowboarding in Colorado every year, and in the lodge at the top of Keystone I think, they don't have flushers. Not sure how it works, but they don't stink. Somehow they're engineered to be okay without them. I've also seen some bats will just dump a bucket of ice in the urinals that melts over time.
Nah urinals don't smell worse than standard toilets.
That's not my observed experience.
Piss-soaked floors smell worse, but that's not a urinal problem per se. The steel/porcelain unit itself does not hold odor and even low-flow flush styles effectively clear liquid waste. But there are bad geometries that create splashback, drunkenness and social causes of bad aim, and business staff stretched too thin to adequately attend to the bathrooms.
And as someone that has been paid to clean toilets, all of the worst messes I've seen have been in the women's stalls.
Are you really suggesting that the addition of a urinal to a non-gender specific toilet would make it smell better ?
I'm aware that I'm not the one you're talking with, but not necesarilly, you're making a straw man fallacy and a non sequitur fallacy.
The fact that he, with his empirical experience, noticed that most messes were on female toilets, don't automatically mean that adding urinals is "less smelly". You're just mixing pears with apples, as they're independent variables that, at much, will stack one on top of another, not cancel with each other.
The original comment:
This guy:
My comment:
Your comment:
In this context:
If only there was a single device that could act as a receptacle and disposal for both pee and poo.
You didn't understood me, what I was trying to say is that he never stated directly that urinals would smell better, only that urine in the floor smells worse than both toilets and urinals, and what I meant with "they stack one in top of another" was not about urinals and toilets, just about the variables. And it IS a straw man because you're using a weaker version of their argument by responding to something that they did never said.
It all goes back to pavlov
Nah put handwash inside stalls pls. Saved my life at new job where i got dog poo on my shoes and could clean it privately.
It's probably too expensive to put the plumbing for that in the walls of the stalls. Usually there's already a lot less washbasins than toilets, I don't think that's ever going to change.
When they do have in stall sinks they're that tiny one. It's okay but still takes up more space and has a larger carbon footprint.
Like is really the end of the world if you have to wait a second to wash your hands?
Plus the communal sink is easier to keep clean. Just keep all the filth in the toilet rooms.
In Japan there are toilets that run a faucet that fills the tank on the toilet. Wash your hands as it flushes and fills. It’s not like it’s that hard it’s just that the ones with the checkbook want to pocket the budget instead of provide a decent quality of life
Japanese people don't need to be publicly shamed into washing their hands tho
How does that work, doesn't that mean you have poop from handwashing flowing into the toilet tank?
This could be a problem if you do in fact drink from the toilet but I would advise against that regardless of where you are.
Drinking from the tank is actually a recommendation in emergencies when water is cut off. The tank has clean water in it by default and should be full at all times.
Even then, it sounds like it would lead to filth accumulation in the tank over time unless cleaned. One more space for bacteria to fester.
There are many toilets that run on gray water. They just usually aren't this direct. It shouldn't be an issue. You're already shitting in the toilet. Who cares if the water coming in to flush is slightly contaminated?
I'm more concerned about the tank getting more and more filthy over time as filth accumulates. I'm not sure whether there's any actual practical impact from that.
Everything I know about Japan tells me that it's not a problem. They tend to keep things clean, so it's either designed to mitigate the issue or it isn't something that has to be worried about at all. I highly doubt they just have some disgusting toilets all over the place.
(Also, these probably have bidets too, so if you're getting poop on your hands then you're just having fun.)
I have faith in the Japanese to keep their toilets clean. I do not have faith in my fellow citizens to do the same 😂
Yeah, but in a public toilet you have to expect the worst.
I like the Japanese style all in one designs. Ie. The sink drains into the toilet. Even if it's just a rinse station it'd be nice and proper sink in common area. Though I haven't seen a public restroom based on this just residential toliets
A school did this. They converted a gendered restroom into several private, non-gendered toilet areas, by installing full-height walls and doors around the toilets. The law in the state said that if the hand washing area was considered a private space, it was a "changing area", and must be segregated by gender. But, if this space was not "private", it was only a hand washing area and not a "changing area".
So they ensured the hand washing area was considered "public" by cutting a hole in the wall between the hand washing area and the hallway.
And they pissed off pretty much everyone on every side of the issue.
Same, but I'd also offer a second mint to folks who show initiative and restock the toilet paper when it runs low.
I would call this a shared genderless restroom with stalls, but yes, I think that is the ideal. Red Rock Amphitheatre has a restroom like this. The stalls are all nice full concrete stalls, not the common ones in the US with huge gaps, but everyone stands in line together and takes whatever stall opens, and I haven't seen an issue in the few times I've been there. Not only does it remove any gender issues with assigning restrooms, but it also evens out the lines between men and women, where the men's restrooms basically never have lines.
Add a 2nd room that's just urinals and no gender requirements.
Hope you're ready to wait in a hella-long line.
angry libertarian noises
You do realize they can put the same number of toilets as any other bathroom setup right? I don't even know how you got to that conclusion.
I guarantee you can fight more people around one of those pee-troughs at a baseball stadium than you can fit individual toilets separated by walls and doors.
Hell, the entire appeal of the standing urinal is to conserve space.
lmao a piss trough in a baseball stadium is quite the strawman my dude. Nevermind that you're forgetting about poop.
But sure lets set the bar as low as possible. 'Tis the libertarian way I guess. That and eating popcorn with other dudes' piss all over your hands.
Not gonna yuk your yum but microdosing golden showers is not something most people are into.
If anyone here has never shat in the piss trough in a movement of desperation then I will eat my hat.
I don't think you know what a strawman is. But this need to hide people from one another while they piss and poop is a big part of what feeds the anti-trans hysteria.
This is why people traditionally wash their hands after using the toilet.
I don't know why you're trying to use that as part of an argument for why we ought not to have a whole bunch of separate cubicles. No one sees anyone peeing or pooping then, at all. No problem.
I've been to Red Rock Amphitheatre twice, and they have a restroom exactly like described (minus the mints sadly). It functions perfectly well. I used it a good number of times. And yes, there is a line, but it's no longer than the gender segregated ones on average. There's a ton of people, and most of them are drinking, so it has to function well, and it does. It's probably the "main" restroom, as it's the one closest to the front stage.
odd i didnt know female (the majority of the population) bathrooms had pee troughs.... fun fact: if you switched to unisex you'd actually have less lines due to queuing theory removing the gendered spikes at any given point due to larger total availability per gender. right now you have 1/2 of the total availability for women and 1/4 the total availability for men vs a non-gendered setup.
Women's restrooms regularly overcrowd because they don't
take your time, think it through. maybe you'll figure out the point.
Modern Libertarians are anti-LGBT and have completely lost their way. They hated their own 2024 presidential candidate Chase Oliver so much for being gay that there was an attempt by many in the party to replace him with Trump, and there were letters pleading for party members to vote for him despite him being gay. It was all super lame and I left. Libertarians used to be at the forefront of individuality and personal liberties, but not anymore. The official website might claim otherwise, but that's just PR.
I'm intimately familiar with Texas Libertarians, having family who are actively involved in the state party. They were woo'd by Trump pretty much day one of his campaign. So much of modern southern libertarianism is just a mask over the Neo-Confederate ideology that went out of style under Bush Jr.
Chase Oliver only won the nomination in 2024, because so many self-proclaimed libertarians had defected back to the GOP already. The folks whining about the nomination wanted to have their GOP affiliation and eat their Libertarian cake, too. And while he took a ton of cheap heat for his sexual orientation, the real thing that made Chase a target for ire is that he wasn't a closed borders militant white supremacist psycho.
The party has always worn two faces. One face pointed towards the liberals, which promised weed and free love and no more wars. Another face towards the Dixiecrat south, which promised Jim Crow and indentured servitude and CSAM.
Love my NORML libertarians, but I quickly recognized this group was not for me when I spent a weekend at the state convention way back in 2012.
This is how you know Libertarians are dumb. Libertarianism would be against the borders. Left-Libertarian (Anarchism) largely is. Right-Libertarian only cares about letting companies take advantage of people, and doesn't care about people at all.
What's next, requiring a licence to not wash my hands after using a public bathroom?
You'd need a note from a senator, your doctor, or your preacher.