this post was submitted on 22 Aug 2026

355 points (96.3% liked)

Memes

56741 readers

773 users here now

Rules:

Be civil and nice.
Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 7 years ago

MODERATORS

gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml

cyclohexane@lemmy.ml

cypherpunks@lemmy.ml

355

Having no control over anything and getting the blame. Again. (lemmy.ml)

submitted 19 hours ago by UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml

30 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml 18 points 16 hours ago (1 children)

We're perfectly aware that Russia is capitalist, it gets no more credits than Germany for its communist past. The reason it receives critical support is because it's opposing the US, and the US hegemon falling is pretty much the gateway to socialism worldwide.

We're so clear about it that I don't even understand how you could possibly think we support Russia because we think it's still socialist?

[+] grue@lemmy.world -14 points 15 hours ago (2 children)

The reason [Russia] receives critical support is because it’s opposing the US

From your link:

Critical support is supporting something while also being critical of its flaws. It is often used in the context of supporting bourgeois states that fight against imperialism or are under imperialist aggression.

The thing is, Russia is exactly the polar opposite of "supporting bourgois states that fight against imperialism" or being "under imperialist aggression." Those statements describe states like Ukraine, while Russia is itself also an imperialist aggressor.

You can argue that the US is also bad in that regard, but you sure as Hell can't argue that Russia is any better. Supporting Russia "critically" (which I'm also not buying, BTW: quite a lot of its support around her is distinctly uncritical) is doing nothing but advocating for trading one oppressing overlord for another.

We’re so clear about it that I don’t even understand how you could possibly think we support Russia because we think it’s still socialist?

Thinking that maybe you were still somehow confused about Russia being communist was being charitable -- giving you the benefit of the doubt. If you're saying that y'all knowingly support fascists, that just makes you irredeemably terrible people.

[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@lemmy.ml 1 points 21 minutes ago

The thing is, Russia is exactly the polar opposite of “supporting bourgois states that fight against imperialism” or being “under imperialist aggression.” Those statements describe states like Ukraine

You think that a state that has invaded Iraq, Syria, Iran, and other places, and has been trying to formally join the gang of other invaders of Iraq and Afghanistan as 'fighting against imperialism'. You are silly.

Also, what do you think a state should do when the most prolific invader in the world - NATO - starts amassing troops near that state's borders, especially after conducting a coup d'etat against a neighbouring state?

[–] culprit@lemmy.ml 13 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

states like Ukraine

y’all knowingly support fascists

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93Ukraine_relations

[+] grue@lemmy.world -15 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

Whataboutism.

The undeniable fact is that Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around. That makes Russia the aggressor and Ukraine the victim in that conflict.

[–] Tomorrow_Farewell@lemmy.ml 1 points 16 minutes ago* (last edited 15 minutes ago)

Whataboutism.

Seriously claiming that other people engage in "whataboutism" is just an admittance of one's own hypocrisy.

The undeniable fact is that Russia invaded Ukraine

After NATO self-admittedly kept pushing for war with Russia with Ukraine as its proxy.

That makes Russia the aggressor and Ukraine the victim in that conflict.

Attempting to join the most prolific invader in the world is an act of aggression, and so is pushing for war with Russia. I wouldn't say that responding to those makes a state the aggressor, but the people of Ukraine (excluding its leadership) are some of the victims.

[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 9 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

"Erm sir it is actually a heckin whataboutism to point out that I have aligned myself with Nazis"

[–] culprit@lemmy.ml 11 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (1 children)

History started in 2022. I am very smart!

“Four months into this thing, I like the structural path we’re on here. As long as we help Ukraine with the weapons they need and the economic support, they will fight to the last person,” said Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-S.C.) early into the war, accidentally voicing what the war’s critics have often said about the war — that the U.S. will fight it “to the last Ukrainian.” Later, Graham called it the “best money we’ve ever spent.”

[+] grue@lemmy.world -9 points 13 hours ago (2 children)

Are you capable of admitting that Russia invaded Ukraine, not the other way around?

[–] RiverRock@lemmy.ml 7 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago) (1 children)

Are you capable of admitting that the Ukranian government was engaged in an eight year campaign of ethnic cleansing?

[–] culprit@lemmy.ml 6 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

The revolutionary violence that swept Kyiv’s Maidan Square on the night of February 21, 2014 unleashed the forces of Ukrainian nationalism and, ultimately, Russian revanchism, and resulted in, among other things, the first full-scale land war in Europe since 1945.

In November 2013, Ukrainian President Victor Yanukovych rejected the terms of the European Union Association Agreement in favor of a $15 billion credit agreement offered by the Russian Federation. Many in the western part of Ukraine had supported the EU deal, as it would have, in their view, secured Ukraine’s future within Europe.

But, as the Europeans, Americans, Ukrainians and Russians knew full well, the association agreement with Brussels wasn’t merely a trade deal. Section 2.3 of the EU-Ukraine association agenda would have required the signatories to:

"...take measures to foster military cooperation and cooperation of technical character between the EU and Ukraine [and] encourage and facilitate direct cooperation on concrete activities, jointly identified by both sides, between relevant Ukrainian institutions and CFSP/CSDP agencies and bodies such as the European Defence Agency, the European Union Institute for Security Studies, the European Union Satellite Centre and the European Security and Defence College."

In other words, the trade deal also included the encouragement of military interoperability with forces viewed, rightly or wrongly, by the Russian government as a threat to Russian national security.

In addition, the EU association agenda required Ukraine to put up barriers to trade with Russia. An alternative proposal put forward by Romano Prodi (former Italian Prime Minister and EU Commission president) would have allowed Ukraine to trade with both Russia and the EU but was rejected by Brussels.

And so, the U.S. lent its support to the post-Maidan government (and the Anti-Terrorist Operation, or ATO, launched in April 2014) against the largely, but of course far from entirely, indigenous uprising in the Donbas. Thus began the first phase of the war, which lasted until the evening of February 24, 2022 and cost 14,000 dead and 1.5 million refugees.

https://responsiblestatecraft.org/maidan-ukraine/