this post was submitted on 30 Sep 2026
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Nah. VIII had a few missteps, but it was better then the rehashed plot of the first, and far better then the mess that followed.
What the actual fuck? Episode VIII is quite literally the worst mainline Star Wars movie made. I consider even episode IX to be better, not by a big margin but still better for no other reason than to try and salvage the clusterfuck that was episode VIII. Here's a short list of things episode VIII got wrong.
The whole movie is one massive misstep that derailed the entirely sequel trilogy. I get Episode VII wasn't anything magnificent but the entire point of episode VII was to reaffirm to the fans (who were skeptical about the continuation of Star Wars considering Episode III didn't really leave on a high note and Episode VI kinda tied up the loose ends) that the series is going somewhere and isn't nosediving off a cliff. That's why they effectively redid the Episode IV plotline, because it was a safe starting point that sets up characters for episodes VIII and IX. Abrams even left a rough draft for VIII and IX but then Johnson was given full creative control to throw the entire trilogy draft out the window and do whatever the fuck he wanted. We don't know if episode IX could've ever been good because episode VIII fucked the entire trilogy so hard it became impossible to salvage.
The only context in which Episode VIII could be better than IX is if you view them as individual movies and not a part of a trilogy. And you know, Episode VIII probably could've been an okay standalone film. But it wasn't. It had to respect what episode VII set up and it had to give episode IX something to follow up on. It didn't neither and for that both Episode VII and IX are worse off simply because episode VIII exists. In fact the movie almost killed the entire franchise by taking all the characters and storylines and driving them off straight off the cliff.
You're right with all your bullet points. Episode VIII has a fundamentally broken plot in many ways. The thing that it has going for it though is that it has a few actual themes that I found interesting. I like that Johnson questioned the whole light side dark side polarity and that Rey came from nobody in particular. I liked the rejection of the Skywalker family and assertion that heroes could come from anywhere. If it had followed a better movie, "let the past die" would have been a legitimate highlight for me. It didn't work in the trilogy it's a part of, but if the trilogy had been based around the VIII we got I think it could have worked as a sequel trilogy to Star Wars.
And the thing is that I think those are about the only things I particularly like in the entire sequel trilogy besides Babu Frik (I hate how much I love that little dude), and that makes episode VIII the best of a trilogy of bland to bad movies for me. Episode VII was the best constructed of them, and it had cool stuff, but it didn't do anything that made me think "oh that's interesting" (like VIII did) because so much of it was nostalgia based 'memberberries. You're right about it being made to address fan concerns, but that was only relevant in 2015, and I'm looking back at in 2026. Episode IX was just a train wreck start to finish, and I don't particularly blame it because it had the unenviable task of following up VIII, but it's still just bad with nothing interesting to show for it.
I have to say I'm getting of directors both-sidesing every story. It was one of the reasons I didn't like episode VIII. Star Wars was better when it was good guys vs bad guys.
100% this it was Rian Johnson's inability to work from someone else's starting point.
To add to your list. Finn. Johnson butchered Finn's story so much that the actor vocally said he would never take another Star Wars job.
He was supposed to be a Luke analog. He was supposed to be force sensitive. He was supposed to confront Phasma. The first movie projected so many hints at the path many of these characters were going to take in the trilogy. There was a parallel to Finn and Rey. Finn's force awakening literally breaks his mind control and we see Kylo sense him!
Johnson came in and burned all of those threads.
I accepted a lot about Episode VIII, but the ruin of the Finn stuff is where it actually became unforgivable for me.
I put Finn (and Phasma) together with all the other threads Episode VII set up and Johnson wrote off. There were simply too many to mention each thread individually.
But yeah, it was a travesty what Johnson did to Finns story. Considering how shafted he got it would've been a mercy kill if Finn had sacrificed himself in Episode VIII but even then Johnson needed to subvert expectations and continue ruining characters.
7 put Luke on an island during a war, 8 was just doing the best it could with Abrams' nonsense mystery boxes
wouldn’t you say the same for A New Hope?
I would, but A New Hope gets the excuse of actually being a standalone movie. A New Hope came into theaters as "Star Wars" and became Episode 4 later. Like I said, The last Jedi probably would've been an okay standalone movie. The problem is that The Last Jedi was never supposed to be a standalone movie.
I'll accept that. In general, though, I feel like having the time jumps pull a lot of weight is core to the Star Wars movies' identity, so if there's any movie that should leave few threads loose at the end, it would be Star Wars. (Thus, I also feel there was no reason for IX to have been what it was.) I would also argue Kylo Ren being now in control of the New Order in the state of mind that he is (plus his arc with Rey) is a very loose thread with very promising potential. (Plus the ending shot seemed like foreshadowing the fate of the trilogy's end would be decided by entirely new possibilities.)
You can have time jumps between movies but if the movie is a part of a trilogy it needs to serve the trilogy. Imagine if at the end of two towers Frodo throws the ring into the fire. What would return of the king be about? You couldn't have the return of the king because the story is resolved, the ring is gone. It would have to be a completely new u story and it wouldn't make any sense in the context of the trilogy.
That's basically what Johnson did. He took the whole story and instead of setting up the final movie to resolve the story he resolved the story on his own and left nothing for the last movie.
All the New Order lost was the equivalent of two aircraft carriers. (Using the ancient art of calculus, 1+ \int_{TR-8R}^{some other named squadron} fighter dust = 2.) The story absolutely was not resolved. Ren in control of the Order while going insane, whatever’s up with Finn and Rose surviving, how exactly was the rebellion going to continue (they clearly were but what do they do now?), and final scene may as well had marked with big giant circles who shall be the next heroes.
Did we watch the same movie? The Order won and the rebels lost.
The movie setting up "next heroes" is literally my point. It sets up something new with new characters instead of setting up the conclusion to the trilogy with existing characters. It doesn't set up the next movie with existing characters because their archs got concluded.
the rebels didn’t lose either; they just lost all of their bases. they’re the rebellion, famously created by george lucas examining viet cong guerrilla tactics.
with next heroes i was just saying the movie clearly laid out a path for a sequel to reuse threads. i mentioned about five things left untied with existing characters and the next heroes are not any one of them. Rey’s arc was just getting started.
Huh, guess we have wildly different definitions of losing.
Did you? Let's count.
If we add what you now also added, Rey’s arc was just getting started, we barely get to 5. And I do have points to make here.
Finn and Rose surviving isn't a continuation of the trilogy, their plot ended with them finding love. What comes after would have to be a new story for them. Saying that's setting up the next movie is like saying Episode 6 set up Episode 7 because "What would happen to Mon Mothma after the Battle of Endor?".
Same with "How exactly was the rebellion going to continue". That's not setting up the last movie of the trilogy. That might as well be a starting point of a new trilogy.
Circling out next heroes is the complete opposite of setting up the last movie of the trilogy because it sets up a whole new cast. If anything that's setting up a new trilogy.
And Rey's arc was just getting started? Rey's entire motivation was to find out who abandoned her on Jakku and why. For the viewer there was the additional question of why she's so strong with the force. Both points got concluded in the Last Jedi with revealing that her parents abandoned her and we don't even know them because when she touches the force all she finds is herself. Her story concluded. What happens next is a new story.
The only storyline we could entertain is Rens but that alone is not enough to set up the next movie because he's not even the main character.
So no, it didn't really set anything up in the context of the trilogy.
Except that it ignored everything set up in the previous movie, thus causing the next movie to be an absolute mess.
The force awakens basically had that same problem though, effectively undoing everything concluded in return of the Jedi. Granted there's a time gap but there's no explanation as to why the former rebels (whatever they were called at that time I forgot) were still such a small force compared to the new big bad (something order?), not to mention why this order exists in the first place, what their motivations were, how they got their numbers and resources, etc. They're just a galaxy-level threat sprung from thin air. It seems pretty clear to me that JJ just wanted to remake a new hope with as little consideration of the conclusion of return of the Jedi as he could get away with, plot holes be damned. RJ tried to address some of these plot holes but even he doesn't really attempt to justify the something-order's existence. If the force awakens was the first star wars movie as a new hope was then it wouldn't be such a big deal, but coming just a few decades after the return of the Jedi, there ought to be some explanation for how they lost so much progress in that time, preferably in the first act. But nah, it's just "somehow the empire returned (with cool new branding)" because JJ can't write a plot to save his life.
This is why I really don't care for the new trilogy through. Episode VII is a fun movie in isolation but as a follow-up to VI it makes zero sense. Says a lot about audiences that they just blindly accept its premise with no questions asked. The rebels are magically the underdogs again guys, nothing that happened in original trilogy matters!
Yeah, there was so much material they could have pulled from the Expanded Universe. The New Republic era, reclaiming territory from the imperial remnants and rebuilding the Jedi Order; the New Jedi Order era, fighting off the Yuuzhan Vong and the Killiks; the Fate of the Jedi era, when the Sith make a comeback; and then there's the Legacy era after that.
That's at least 3 or 4 trilogies right there.
Not to mention going back in time to the Old Republic era with its wars against the Sith empires, and the Dawn of the Jedi in the Origins era prior to that.
If they really wanted to milk the franchise, they had plenty of material to work with instead of just saying "nah" and declaring it all non-canonical, only to replace it with slop...
Nah, don't put the blame on ep. IX mess into VIII. It also ignored everything set up on the previous movie, and even if it didn't, there wouldn't be any need for it to suck that much.
Now, none of that makes VIII good...
8 is the best Star Wars movie
A few missteps is quite the understatement. I'd take boring rehash over universe-breaking any day. But it doesn't matter in the end. It's like comparing different flavors of shit.
they already broke the universe before the seventh movie by declaring that nothing mattered. eight felt like a fan reaction to that by trying to bring stuff back.
IDK. VII was disappointing, but I hated VIII so much I still haven't watched IX. But maybe picking a winner out of these is besides the point. Rogue One showed what a good, modern Star Wars film could look like, and in comparison with that, both VII and VIII are just terrible.