this post was submitted on 06 Oct 2024
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TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name
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Not you. The real choice should be obvious.
Pff. Jellico Lite is far inferior to Jellico Prime.
Perhaps objectively, but for my own irrational reasons I've got to rep my man Shaw!
Thank you. It's not hard at all.
I find it fascinating that Janeway seems to swing between being everyone's favorite and everyone's most hated captain. I personally think she's awesome and she's one of my favorites.
She's amazing. Janeway's the captain that faces a Kobayashi Meru every few episodes and keeps coming out on top (occasional losses in personnel and ethical/moral core notwithstanding).
Ye, I've heard one of the biggest complaints people have is that they feel like she plays into the "hysterical/impulsive woman" stereotype, but I don't really see it that way. She's a captain who got thrown into the abyss and is trying to get her way out. I've seen people comment on how she threw out the prime directive almost immediately, or that she made decisions that made their trip home longer; compared to Picard who never makes a mistake. Sure, she made some dumb decisions, but comparing her to Picard (who's basically perfect) isn't remotely fair.
Picard is a highly decorated captain running the Federation's flagship in possibly the comfiest position a federation officer can hope for; with a charisma strong enough to answer any conflict with "I think this was all just a big misunderstanding."
Janeway is a captain of a small ship with a crew intended to hunt down insurgents before getting iseki'd to the delta quadrant, killing a large chunk of the original crew and forcing her to team up with the insurgents.
And yeah, of course she's gonna throw out the prime directive; she's going to throw out the entire book. Any good captain would immediately realize that Starfleet regulations work in """civilized""" space, but the further into the unknown you go, the less the regulations make sense. Like, what, was she supposed to just sit there and wait for backup the moment they ran into a problem bigger than them? Yeah, that's a great idea, we'll just wait for Picard to swoop in and tell everyone it was just a big misunderstanding and then Janeway can be on her way. He'll be here soon. Just aaaaanny day now...
Imo, Janeway is a very human (and imo, badass) captain and it'd be more fair to compare her to Kirk than Picard, Sisko or most other captains; and imo she did a much better job than Kirk. At least she wasn't being a sex pest to everyone they met.
When Janeway wants something done, she gets it done, Jane's way.
She takes "Cowboy Diplomacy" and turns it up to 11.
s7e7 "Body and Soul"
Well put, she is my favorite as well. The whole setting is just so cool and somewhat what I expected/hoped S3 of DIS to turn into when they started with Burnham and Book alone on his ship...
I thought Voyager had great characters - it was the only reason I watched the show. I always found the premise of the show to be very uninteresting. But that’s just my personal taste.
My feelings about her differ depending context, I think.
As a character I think she's great. As a person I don't. As a captain I can see either side, but personally I lean towards "this person should not have unchecked power" tbh. Some of her actions really are needlessly callous.
Her ruthlessness is often great when the situation calls for it, but some things like her literally torturing Paris for 30 days in one episode really rubs me the wrong way.
I feel like Janeway would be a good first officer for a more "gentle" captain. Like Colonel Tigh is to Captain Adama on Battlestar Galactica.
E: long term solitary confinement is torture, as concluded by the UN, ECHR, and a load of governments, human rights organisations, criminality experts, and doctors worldwide. This is not up for debate. Janeway tortured Paris.
Now, whether you find torture an appropriate punishment is another matter entirely, but I personally am on the side of torture being off the table for tools a captain can use to discipline their officers.
How is being sent to the brig torture? Nothing she did was cruel. He had food and a bed. He had disobeyed a direct order and received a light punishment.
It wasn't merely the brig, it was solitary confinement.
Solitary confinement for 30 days is torture.
He wasn't permitted to speak to anybody, we was never let out. He was never offered anything recreational to do. Janeway even went the extra length of ensuring that any food given to him was bland and flavourless. She took steps to make sure he had as little mental stimulation as possible.
Solitary confinement is widely classed as torture.
There is a huge body of research that proves solitary confinement has large negative impacts to physical, psychological, and neurological health.
The United Nations outlaws solitary confinement for more than 15 days (which is still a lot. It would be less if some US states didn't complain about it) on grounds of it literally being torture. And that's in the unenlightened 21st century, never mind almost 400 years ahead of us.
Even in the most awful of prisons, people are generally allowed an hour a day outside of their cells. Paris didn't even get that.
I'm personally not of the view that torturing your crew is light punishment.