this post was submitted on 09 Oct 2023
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[–] Siegfried@lemmy.world 184 points 1 year ago (2 children)

TL;DR: its cheaper that way,

And i value that decision

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 95 points 1 year ago (4 children)

I can bet you it's incompetence. They failed upwards. Sure, protocol is great and universal, but connector is atrocious and it has nothing to do with cost. Few points in favor of this hypothesis:

  1. Plastic inside of the connector was initially black. Why chose hard to see color? Go with something easier to see;
  2. Connector is perfectly rectangular and only distinguishing feature they made hard to see. Don't make ti symmetrical if it's not reversible, basic design principle;
  3. Connector is perfectly rectangular making it difficult to insert. There's a reason why most connectors have rounded corners, they are self-correcting, even TypeC does this;
  4. They made various different connector types but pushed for the only one with these issues. No one ever had doubts how type B or mini B or micro B go in.
[–] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 52 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Initially, the plastic inside the connector was white. They started to use black to denote USB2.0 devices, and USB2.0 rapidly became the standard. They at least tried to do something similar with blue plastic with USB3.0.

It's basically the only example I can think of where the plug and socket are rotationally symmetrical without also being reversible. That's the kind of thing where I ask "did you test this before you shipped it?" Thirty years later we're still plagued by the damn thing.

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Right you are. Completely forgot about that. That said, I don't think USB1 was a standard for too long. If I remember correctly it went to 2.0 pretty fast.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If you had Macs, USB 1 was around a lot earlier, and really only good for peripherals and HID for a long time. FireWire and external SCSI drives were necessary because USB 1 wasn’t even viable for anything beyond external floppy drives. USB2 was a boon to external drives and bigger thumb drives, but took a while to arrive at the time.

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I don't think I had anything with USB1 in it. Even the early Pentium machines had USB2.

[–] nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

I built a Pentium 2 in 1998 and needed a separate pci card to add usb 1.1 (which was what most early Usb was) USB2 came out in 2000. By then I was ready to upgrade the motherboard and the next one had USB built in, but I can’t remember if it was usb 2 or not, since that might have been late 99

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

I can't remember either, it's been a while. :)

[–] sachabe@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Also a male USB 2 plug fits perfectly into a RJ45 slot :-/ In my days of tech support, I've seen multiple people plugging their USB printer cable into the network slot of their computer and it's a perfect fit so they were always convinced they didn't do anything wrong... That's clearly a design flaw while all other connectors have distinct sizes.

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Never heard of people plugging USB into LAN, but now that you mention it they are the same size. Luckily all the contacts are shielded.

[–] chatokun@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago

I've done it myself when feeling the back of a pc and trying to get away without looking. I've been doing IT support since high school.

[–] PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Way back before USB, joysticks had a DIN-25 connector that was identical to the ~~MIDI~~ network connector.

I blindly plugged my brand new MS Force Feedback joystick into the ~~MIDI~~ network port behind my miditower (yes I'm that old) and watched the magic smoke rise out of the joystick. That was not a good day to learn about plugs. The network carries 50 volts or something. Stick wasn't happy.

edit: corrections! Here's a photo of the network card: https://i.imgur.com/fBJixkM.png

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Strange. I always thought they were the exact same port. Because most of the time you would need a sound card to plug in a joystick. And nowadays I can't use my MS Force Feedback because all the USB adaptors don't implement all of the MIDI stuff the joystick needs to run the force feedback.

[–] PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Oh you are right, I misremembered: what actually happened was that I was indeed going for the MIDI port of my SoundBlaster card but found a matching socket in my networrk card!

I will update my comment to correct this.

[–] sverit@feddit.de 2 points 1 year ago

You mean USB Type-B, right?

[–] p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 32 points 1 year ago (2 children)

No one ever had doubts how type B or mini B or micro B go in.

I agree with most of your post, but micro B is a step too far. That fucking plug was always inserted with the following procedure:

  1. Try to plug it in.
  2. Flip the side and try to plug it in again.
  3. Flip it again because you had the right damn side the first time.

Always, always, always.

[–] MeanEYE@lemmy.world -1 points 1 year ago

Well, if nothing else it's easier to than type A.

[–] Wogi@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Hindsight is 20/20. You're raising every issue with the original USB plug, then proceed to highlight how they addressed these issues going forward.

You're describing inexperience and calling it incompetence.

[–] Fedizen@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

AFAIK the real predecessor to USB was Serial cables and those were an absolute shit show. USB set out to create a more usable interface with a lower profile and cheaper cost. In many ways the minor flaws in USB becoming common gripes is USB becoming a victim of its own success. I don't think they originally set out to become a power charging standard so the frequency at which devices were plugged in increased over time .

[–] Dultas@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

At least serial cables weren't symmetric, although just barely. AT and PS/2 cables (or any DIN) were much more of a pain for me to plug in blind.

[–] deaf_fish@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I don't even know that I would call it inexperience. I just think a major part of the first pass was selling the idea of USB. You can design a perfect cable, plug, and protocol, it doesn't mean anyone will use it. Most investors don't know much about the technical details of a product. They do, however, understand the price. If you're trying to make a difference in the world, you don't always get to do it with style and quality.

[–] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 1 year ago

Considering the much higher cost of production then vs now, it makes complete sense. The economy of scale took care of that problem with time.