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Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. What evidence would you require to believe the Buddhist sutras that describe talking animals and flying monks? Probably more than hearsay, I'd imagine.
I swear, trying to follow your chain of reasoning is impossible. So, you brought up abortion to demonstrate to me that religion belongs in politics, by simply asserting that it does?
Are you really going to make me bring up all the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity, then? The crusades, the inquisitions, the witch burnings, the wars of religion - all perfectly moral, apparently, because "secularism is needed to abolish morality." What a load of crap.
Right, what you want then is even worse. A return to feudalism, perhaps? Yes, that's how we can ensure that humanity's sinful nature never manifests into anything bad, by giving some random asshat like the guy in your profile pic absolute power and no checks or accountability.
Better yet, maybe we can have a theocracy? Surely, nobody claiming to represent the will of God could ever be subject to that same sinful and corrupt human nature, and can be trusted implicitly to rule.
And if not capitalism, socialism, feudalism, or theocracy, then what is it exactly that you support?
Eyewitness testimony. Said eyewitnesses literally dying on that hill helps. As well as a religious movement spontaneously and uncontrollably erupting from it.
For a start, were the crusades really an atrocity? And the inquisitions? They were fighting against Islam. I don't think you'd prefer a caliphate over Christendom. The Bible doesn't mandate witch burnings either. In fact, it was usually over superstitious nonsense which it condemns. What didn't help is that people back then couldn't actually read the Bible - probably the largest answer to your question, actually. So corrupt people in the Church had more control. Now your average layman can read the Bible and see Trump is in fact an antichrist. Many churches also condemned the witch hunts as superstition. That's kind of like the right using instances of transgender people committing atrocities to invalidate all of them.
None of these work. They all rely on humans. I don't see a need to participate in that argument. Empires come and go. Whether they be feudal, theocratic, democratic or socialist. I'm more concerned with Christ's eternal Kingdom. Christ didn't preach an earthly political system, much to many people's dismay at the time. All He did in regards to political systems was emphasising that people should submit to the authorities over them. So whether you live in Britain, Canada, America, China or Russia. As long as said submission doesn't undermine or overtake your submission to God. You shall love the LORD your God with all of your heart. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it, you shall love your neighbour as yourself. These two commandments should govern the affairs of a Christian's life.
Cool. That describes most religions. So either you need to convert to basically every religion at once, or you need to raise your standards of evidence.
And Judaism, and Eastern Orthodoxy, and anyone who happened to be standing in the way of valuables. How can you possibly be this deluded about history?
You don't see a problem with the numerous times all Jews were expelled from their respective countries? Like when Jews in Spain, who had previously been tolerated under Islamic rule, were forced to convert, leave, or die, and many of them had to flee to Islamic countries for whatever refuge they could find there? Why the hell do you think there's a diaspora?
Or the crusades, when the Byzantines asked the Church for help fighting the Muslims, and the crusaders sacked and looted Constantinople, leaving them more vulnerable?
Then you'll be relieved to know that Marx never mandated any sort of atrocities, so that means Marxism has a totally clean record on that front.
The Preacher and the Slave
Yeah, no thanks. If more people listened to your "submit to authority" bullshit, we'd still have chattel slavery. Fuck off with this bootlicking nonsense.
You don't think I should care about politics? Well my boss and my landlord do, and every day they're working to make my life worse. It's long past time to start fighting back. We didn't start the class war. We just recognize it exists.
Eh, not really. The Bibe points to specific points in time, letters appear to be addressing actual people and sending greetings, etc. They also reference real people contemporary for it's time. I haven't found any other religious document that does this. The Gospels and Epistles read as eyewitness testimony.
That part wasn't right, but I can see noble intentions behind the motivations.
I know.
Jesus criticised this exact attitude.
So you don't submit to the authorities of the country you live in, then? What about your employer?
I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm saying that politics shouldn't be your god, which is a folly of most political systems
So if I send a letter to a real person claiming that I'm god, does that make my claim immediately legitimate, or do we have to wait?
Noble intentions my ass. They wanted to kill and loot and conquer, I see no real difference between the crusades and say, Genghis Khan. At least the Khan was honest.
Maybe you should listen.
"Every proletarian has been through strikes and has experienced “compromises” with the hated oppressors and exploiters, when the workers have had to return to work either without having achieved anything or else agreeing to only a partial satisfaction of their demands. Every proletarian—as a result of the conditions of the mass struggle and the acute intensification of class antagonisms he lives among—sees the difference between a compromise enforced by objective conditions (such as lack of strike funds, no outside support, starvation and exhaustion)—a compromise which in no way minimises the revolutionary devotion and readiness to carry on the struggle on the part of the workers who have agreed to such a compromise—and, on the other hand, a compromise by traitors who try to ascribe to objective causes their self-interest (strike-breakers also enter into “compromises”!), their cowardice, desire to toady to the capitalists, and readiness to yield to intimidation, sometimes to persuasion, sometimes to sops, and sometimes to flattery from the capitalists." - Lenin, "No Compromises?"
Yes, I submit to my rulers, temporarily, insofar as I don't have the power to do anything else. This is fundamentally different from advocating for "submission to authority" as a general principle.
Yes, sometimes we have to endure defeat, indignities, and abuse, sometimes we must recognize a conflict as unwinnable in the current state of affairs, but that's just a matter of surviving until that state of affairs can be changed. This is a practical, strategic calculation about how to win, it is not the same on giving up all hope of winning, of denouncing winning as immoral, and extolling the "virtue" of submission to authority. Surely you must understand this.
I'll never understand why Christians have this incessant need to assume everyone else has to have something that acts as a "god." It seems to be a total lack of imagination, an inability to understand anyone who thinks differently from them.
That's not what the Bible is.
Not once did I advocate against helping the poor?
You will never win. No matter the system you will be oppressed until the Kingdom of Heaven comes.
Luke 6:20-26
Luke 1:50-53
You are literally advocating against the poor right now. Any hope of actually helping the poor, advancing the people's condition through systemic change, is impossible and a foolish, immoral endeavor, according to you, we should all just suffer and accept whatever oppression and injustice is inflicted on us so that we can get pie in the sky when we die. It's literally exactly what you're saying.
Curiously, the crusades, which were also a political endeavor, do not fall under the same logic (nor does banning abortion, for that matter). Because it was a ruling class endeavor. The ruling class's boot is so far down your throat that you can't even speak coherently.
No, I'm just saying that politics cannot replace God.
It's the ruling class who seems to criticise the Crusades and Christianity the most
"Politics replacing God" just means "people advocating for politics you personally disagree with."
No, it doesn't. For example, there are some people who have a Christ-centred socialist view. Karl Marx was Antitheist and Materialist. That's my main reason for disagreeing with Marxism.
The reality is that no political system will ever abolish oppression due to The Fall.
Then it is useless to try to ban abortion or wage holy war against Islam, and you are contradicting yourself.
You can implement measures to reduce oppression, but can never eliminate it.
Ok then, I want to reduce oppression through Marxism.
That's fair and very respectable, provided Marxism isn't attempting to replace God in this case. Is Marxism antitheist? Probably best to ask an actual marxist instead of listen to what people say about Marxists and what I've observed about The People's Republic of China.