this post was submitted on 18 Jan 2026
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I have to assume the people who think Star Trek is woke now also believe drag queens in the 90s represented good christian values
Woke Kurtzman Trek is actually oddly misogynist if you think about it. Captain Janeway is a real, respectable officer who can go toe to toe with any man (or other) she encounters, because she's badass, and a rock-solid Starfleet officer in the mold of Kirk, Picard, and Sisko. Holly Hunter curled up in the captain's chair like she's getting cozy at home in front of a fire is a BAD look. Diverse casts of all shapes and orientations swearing at each other and acting like it's high school, not a representation of a federation of hundreds of billions of sentients is a BAD look. Woke, dumb Kurtzman Trek portrays more female and diverse crews as less professional and dumber than their predecessors in Berman Trek, which I'm pretty sure is the opposite of what they're trying to achieve.
Edit: for router Cisco
I’ve seen the word “professionalism” come up in a lot of people’s complaints about nuTrek, but that concept of professional behaviour is something I just don’t value. If the people you’re working with stop respecting you because you choose to sit comfortably or let out an exuberant “fuck yeah!” when things go great, I think you’re working with the wrong people. I think only unserious and immature people would worry about that.
I’m also one of those who embraces the “scientists” view of Starfleet over the “military” view, so that might be a factor. I like to see the crew comfortable at their jobs and loving what they do.
So all of that is to say I’m 110% down with Holly Hunter letting her piggies out, and I don’t think that reflects badly on her or her gender in the least.
The word "professionalism" here a common dogwhistle for "obedience" and "conformity". It's use in this context is almost exclusively directed towards women, but also sometimes to black men.
When Micheal Burhnam disobeys orders it's "unprofessional", when Worf or Picard does it, it's "bold". When Ake sits down unconventionally it's "unprofessional", when Riker does it, it's a quirky and beloved part of his character. etc. etc.
Yeah I’d say you hit the nail on the head. In a franchise that thought Spock saying his superiors should “go to hell” was such a great line they had Data ape it two films later, “professional” seems to be a label some characters have easier access to than others.
Okay, you don't value the tone of pre-Kurtzman Trek. Great, it's your series and IP nobody cares about anymore at this point, you won. Enjoy Holly Hunter's The Magicians in space. I liked a prior version of the IP, which in my humble opinion was better via being actually popular.
If I based my esteem for things on how popular they are, I’d have never gotten into Star Trek. It was decidedly unpopular with my cohort at the time.
For what it’s worth I adore old school Trek. Just like I think it would be dumb to judge someone for being comfy or exuberant, I also wouldn’t judge someone for preferring a reserved demeanour like dear old Picard.
I also remember Geordi building model ships in engineering and running off to play with Data on the holodeck, so I don’t really see an incompatibility between the eras.
I mean, look at this scene. Is it really that far off from Tilly dropping her enthusiastic F bombs?
https://youtu.be/Lr64khTqyYQ
If you can't see how Kurtzman Trek is vastly crasser and dumber than Berman Trek, I don't know what to tell you.
Which one is curling up in a comfy chair with a good book? Crass or dumb?
It's deeply unserious.
EDIT: I apologize. This was a bit snarkier in tone than I intended, and probably escalated conversations in ways that I shouldn’t have. A more civil way to put it is I disagree on the standard of “seriousness” ascribed to the earlier Star Trek series; take the Riker maeuver, for instance.
Ah, yes, Star Trek, the “dead serious” show.
Red Letter Media just had a video about how Kurtzman Trek people who point to that DS9 scene overtly never saw that episode and looked up "silly Trek Scene" on Google. Same applies to your other gifs, tbh. You have overtly never seen these episodes. I don't see why you kids even bother arguing. You won. All 3000 of you get to enjoy Vampire Diaries in space while millions of old men weep...
Complaining about "kids these days ruining Star Trek" is just sad, Bud. If you can't engage with people on here without insulting them based on an assumed trait, kindly find another place to talk about Trek.
And, just so we're clear, I'm old enough that I've been watching Trek since before TNG was in production, and my favourite episodes have always been the silly ones.
Remember when Kirk and Spock went to the gangster planet, and Kirk got really into the role?
Remember when Worf, Alexander, and Troi were trapped on the holodeck populated by western archetypes that all had Data's face and abilities, including the busty saloon madame? Talk about fully functional.
Remember when, in the middle of a war with an existential threat, the crew of DS9 stopped to play baseball against Sisko's academy bully?
Remember when the Doctor started day dreaming, including improvising an opera about how Tuvok was overtaken by the pon'farr, and the potato shaped aliens using him to spy on the crew thought everything he was imagining was real?
Remember almost every holodeck, Ferengi, mirror universe, or Lawaxana Troi episode? Star Trek can be deep and serious and meaningful, but it can also be very, very silly. And that's awesome.
It is sad. Kurtzman ruined a franchise that is probably doomed to be discontinued imminently for lack of interest. If you can't tell the difference between moments of levity in Berman Trek and the tone issue in Kurtzman Trek...
What is your evidence that Trek is doomed?
Also, if you don't like the shows currently being produced, is it really that sad?
They put up the first episode of Academy for free on youtube 4 days ago and it's averaged like 2000 views per hour. The episode cost $10 million to make. It's not sustainable to expend these Kurtzman budgets for the audience it gets economically. It's not like there's kids lining up at Walmart to buy Discovery toys. Star Trek: Enterprise was averaging 2.9 million viewers per episode with a MUCH smaller budget when it was cancelled.
You do understand the differences between modern television making and 25 years ago, correct?
If modern era Trek was really so unsustainable, would they be going into their ninth year of it?
Every Kurtzman Trek product has operated at a loss so far, and it's not like they're making that up on merch... there's a rumor out there that Les Moonves signed an insane contract with Kurtzman out of spite for being metooed on his way out where they need to pay a flat $250mil to Kurtzman to STOP making these... doesn't seem like an insane theory when you have literally $2 billion spent on Star Trek content with a viewership under a million people.
You’re going to need to back those claims up with some actual evidence beyond whiney youtube conspiracy nonsense
“Alla maraine! Count to four! Alla maraine, then three more! Alla maraine, then you’ll see. Alla maraine, you’ll come with me!”
That episode's tone is more horror than anything else. It's the application of something childish as something unsettling, like Children of The Corn or Weapons. It is decidedly NOT the same tone as Tig Notaro being whacky.
lol. You out yourself by citing Red Letter Media as if that is anything to take seriously other than a source of potential mis/disinformation on any given topic.
I’ve been watching Trek since TOS was in first run. I’ve actually worked with real life military.
Your attitude and comments strongly suggest you have neither experience.
Current Star Trek is in no way less credible than the franchise was in any previous era of production. Yes, it’s making different choices for a different generation of audience but on balance it’s just as authentic.
Those choices are attracting an exponentially smaller audience, but like I said, you won, go enjoy Gossip Girl in space, its your franchise now.
“The Magicians in Space”, “Vampire Diaries in Space”, “Gossip Girl in Space”, you’ve got a million of these. I’d have trouble naming so many shows I don’t like. I forget about them pretty quickly because I just stop watching them and never engage with their fandom.
Something to consider.
They're all great shows, which are not Star Trek.
That’s genuinely very confusing. When someone tells me a show is like another show I like, but in space, that’s usually an endorsement. Gene Roddenberry literally pitched Star Trek as “Wagon Train in Space”.
I'd argue what defined Berman Trek in particular was being something uniquely high-minded and intelligent that was truly NOT [other series] in space by any measure. I also find it hard to believe that Wagon Train is terribly similar to OG Trek beyond people go place to place on a frontier, but maybe Wagon Train is way more cerebral and involves more strange fiction tropes than I would think, I've never seen it.
Haven’t seen Wagon Train either, but I’d guess Forbidden Planet and The Twilight Zone were actually bigger influences. But everything has some antecedent, no shame in that.
Sure, but TOS is soooo much more than Twilight Zone in space. Is Kurtzman Trek really more than [insert YA series] in space?
We're only two episodes in, but yeah, I'd say SFA is angling for something pretty unique. Space setting aside, not many YA shows concern themselves with the nation-building of a failed state. I'm not hugely versed, but wrapping your second episode around a diplomatic conference seems pretty unusual for the genre.
I'd potentially be open to watching an original YA space IP, but I don't consider that Star Trek, it's just slapping a Star Trek label on a thing, which actually harms both brands.
Maybe. It's certainly a gamble. I think it's off to a good start, so I hope it pays off. But mine isn't the job that's on the line, so I'm not gonna stress about it. I just watch if it interests me.
I have a friend with autism who has trouble wearing shoes, and faces social judgement for it. To Me, Chancellor Ake is representation. SFA is woke.
I guarantee that guy never once made an internet post about how Riker sits
Well said. The unprofessional behavior is a significant contributor to turning me off nutrek. Why the hell do the engineering and science departments in discovery behave like 20 year olds in need of therapy? How the fuck did these people pass starfleet academy at all?
I can see someone else behaving like a 20 year old in need of therapy
Sadly i am a little older than that, the therapy part is accurate though.
I am however not a highly trained, best of the best, sci fi astronaut academy graduate charged with overseeing a critical element of a colossal machine designed to violate the laws of physics; so why does that matter?
Exactly, these people are supposed to be the most psychologically and mentally and physically tested people in the galaxy. It was a scandal in TNG when Lt "Broccoli" was less than 110% because this is supposed to be the Delta Force of a more enlightened era when we expend our energy on peace and prosperity, so everyone tried to get him up to Enterprise spec, and he did, and it was a win for everyone. Can you imagine a Discovery character on a Berman Trek bridge?
Another one who wasn’t actually paying attention to the scenario or the dialogue while criticizing the show for being ‘dumbed down’ for younger audiences.
I admit I’m losing patience.
Dudes!!! This takes place when the Academy is being recreated after Starfleet and the Federation were seen to have failed large portion of the galaxy after the Burn.
This means that this class DID NOT complete with the best and the brightest across a well connected Federation with a common base of expectations.
They passed the entrance exams but it was not the same as a stable 24th century scenario, or even the early 25th century where Picard’s son was fast tracked based on experience.
Some, like Genesis, are from multi generational Starfleet families that hung on in secret bases during a century of anarch.
Most of the rest are off their planets or out of their small cluster of planets for the first time in their or their parents’ lives.
Others are the first of their species to enter Starfleet and are there for political reasons.
This is a problem across all Kurtzman Trek from Discovery to his latest affront.
I think it's fine if they act like highschoolers in a show for highschoolers. It just means that's not a show that's for me.
lmao why do you care about "bad looks"? are you doing PR for chancellor ake? who the hell cares. I cannot express how weird it is to me that you care about that. Honestly I'm completely baffled as to why you care about how a fictional character who wouldn't care about your option if she was real, but can't care about your opinion because she's not, presents herself.
I have no horse in the race, but an argument could be made about there being multiple types of drag, especially in the UK where it's traditional to make fun of matriarchal figures by doing drag at panto for christmas.
now if the dudes doing that are doing it to get off, who knows, but it's not all Drag Race queens and LGBT people doing it. (not that there's anything wrong with that).... also that shit existed back then too.