Listen, i’m not saying his time isn’t coming to an end at the elite level. But one poor season in 23 years does not call for some of the revisionism occurring here lately. Arguably, the defences he’s still producing (2022, 2021, 2020) have kept the Patriots from rebuilding properly. It isn’t easy in this league to escape from 8-8 hell without a franchise QB.
“Brady made him”. You can use whatever stat you want here, but let’s use the most basic one. Points allowed per game. Of course there are influences here. Time of possession, special teams, ability to generate turnovers. But at its most basic level this is what determines the result of a game.
Brady had 20 seasons as a Patriot. He had a top 10 defence in 17 of them. In 3 super bowl victories, the Patriots played 3 of the top 15 offences in NFL history. 01 Rams, 16 Falcons and 18 Rams. 17 points, 22 points(pick six), 3 points. Even throw the record breaking 04 Colts in there, 3 pts. If we change to PTS per drive, he still has 15 top 10 defences!
Manning had 4, Rodgers had 3, Brees had 2. All three had great ball security and time of possession.
Is Brady the GOAT, yes. His consistency in clutch moments puts him ahead of the likes of Peyton and Rodgers. Did he make Bill the greatest defensive mind in history, no!
Brady record when scoring 20+in the playoffs: 32-4. Rodgers is 12-9 in this statistic for a direct comparison.
Average finish in points per drive among notable QBs
Brady: 9th
Rivers: 15th
Peyton: 18th
Rodgers: 18th
Brees: 20th
Mahomes: 20th
And we are trying to pretend Bill didn’t give Brady a significant advantage over his peers? Another 2 super bowls as a DC.
You don't have as much success as the Pats did with a bad coach. It's just impossible.
It’s not an either or situation though. Nobody should be taken seriously if they say BB is trash. The debate has always been how much of the Pats dynasty should be credited to him and how much should go to Brady. Evidence seems to be tilting that scale more towards Brady each year.
Ye and you cant have it with anything less than a GOAT-tier coach tbh
Sean Payton had Drew Brees and never achieved these things. Mike McCarthy had Aaron Rodgers and never achieved these things. Shula had Marino and never achieved these things.
I dont care how GOATed TB12 is, he isnt 6 times better than Brees or Rodgers or Marino.
Winning 6 Super Bowls means you had a ton of help because this isnt tennis. And a lot of it came from Bill.
Belichik is a great head coach, but let me throw in these facts:
I don't know about Belichik, but Brady is indeed better than Brees, Rodgers, Marino, anyone! He is still the greatest player to ever play football. I'm 99% sure that Belichik would have never won SB without Brady, and if you he had had Rodgers, Brees or Marino he would have probably won only 1. Belichik's success isn't all about Brady, but close to 90 %
Bill Burr made a great comparison on his podcast once. He said that having both at the same time on same team is one of those stars alignment, just like the one that put Lennon and McCartney together on the same band. They are geniuses and would be great alone, but together they achieved way more.
He doesn't have to be 6x better than them, but he is better than all of them.
The packers are probably the best example. They went from HOF QB to HOF QB and each only got one Super Bowl. 92-22 30 years, 7 mvps, 6 Passing TD leaders,
Your picture is so confusing. I thought I was going mad and thought there was hair on my screen!
I agree 100%. It drives me crazy when people have the debate: Brady or BB, which one is more responsible for the 20 yr dynasty? I mean.....over 20 years, MANY other great players helped make winning possible. How is this not totally obvious? I think that Brady + BB created an environment that lifted a lot of other players. It is the kind of synergy that you can't recreate even if you tried. That is what made it special.