Ask Lemmy
A Fediverse community for open-ended, thought provoking questions
Rules: (interactive)
1) Be nice and; have fun
Doxxing, trolling, sealioning, racism, toxicity and dog-whistling are not welcomed in AskLemmy. Remember what your mother said: if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. In addition, the site-wide Lemmy.world terms of service also apply here. Please familiarize yourself with them
2) All posts must end with a '?'
This is sort of like Jeopardy. Please phrase all post titles in the form of a proper question ending with ?
3) No spam
Please do not flood the community with nonsense. Actual suspected spammers will be banned on site. No astroturfing.
4) NSFW is okay, within reason
Just remember to tag posts with either a content warning or a [NSFW] tag. Overtly sexual posts are not allowed, please direct them to either !asklemmyafterdark@lemmy.world or !asklemmynsfw@lemmynsfw.com.
NSFW comments should be restricted to posts tagged [NSFW].
5) This is not a support community.
It is not a place for 'how do I?', type questions.
If you have any questions regarding the site itself or would like to report a community, please direct them to Lemmy.world Support or email info@lemmy.world. For other questions check our partnered communities list, or use the search function.
6) No US Politics.
Please don't post about current US Politics. If you need to do this, try !politicaldiscussion@lemmy.world or !askusa@discuss.online
Reminder: The terms of service apply here too.
Partnered Communities:
Logo design credit goes to: tubbadu
view the rest of the comments
Almost. The real question is whether or not those acts were genuinely self-determined or if they were heavily corrupted by Russian influence. There's evidence that Russia wanted to take action to annex parts of eastern Ukraine and had begun planning before the coup, as you like to call it. There's evidence that they intervened militarily. There's evidence they stoked separatist sentiment. There's evidence that Russian nationals were in Ukraine trying to frame their actions as the will of the local populace. Russia themselves has managed to make that self-determination questionable at best.
You're right, I'm sorry. I got distracted in trying to go through the previous comment and must have gotten mixed up when I got back to it. I'll review some of this in the morning, been at this too long for one day as is.
Russia acted militarily in February of 2014, in the early days of what you describe as the west's coup. They did not wait until after 2014 or even mid-2014.
Ah, yes, with all signs pointing towards the population moving away from Russia, it can only be a western-backed coup if the populace gets pissed enough at leadership cozying up to Russia, in direct opposition to that. I've never seen anyone provide any actual good evidence that it was a western coup, although I wouldn't be surprised at all to find western nations encouraged things along. Probably not to the extent that Russia encouraged things in their favor in eastern Ukraine, though. Almost certainly not given Russia actually directly acted militarily, even if they lied about it for a while before coming clean. I see you put a link related to it in the list you provided here, so I'll look at that tomorrow, too, but from what I've seen from the last few people who tried to convince me of this, the evidence could probably at best be very generously described as sparse.
The overwhelming evidence points to the west systematically undermining Ukrainian autonomy, empowering Neo-Nazi elements as a deterrent against Russians (who the Nazis still hate for their communist past), and the populations in Donetsk, Luhansk, etc siding with the President they elected (as I showed you earlier). Either way, evidence behind the western-backed coup: