A community to talk about the Fediverse and all it's related services using ActivityPub (Mastodon, Lemmy, KBin, etc).
If you wanted to get help with moderating your own community then head over to !moderators@lemmy.world!
Learn more at these websites: Join The Fediverse Wiki, Fediverse.info, Wikipedia Page, The Federation Info (Stats), FediDB (Stats), Sub Rehab (Reddit Migration), Search Lemmy
Younger folks have been raised on apps and other polished devices with oodles of effort put into UX design.
Older folks grew up learning DOS commands, memorizing the IRQ of their sound card, and other clunky shenanigans.
In their current state Lemmy, Mastodon and other services are too complicated for most young folks to bother with. Not all, but most, especially the filthy casuals.
This is the answer. I'm 26 and most of my peers didn't really use the internet beyond the occasional usage of the school library computers until Apple released the first iPhone. By that time places like Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit were up and running.
That's all their experience with the internet is. Polished experiences through dedicated apps on extremely popular platforms. Now those people have had kids and all those kids know is the same thing. It's all apps on phones and tablets.
Lemmy: A) Is too complicated in it's current form for those types of people to effectively understand and use.
B) Lemmy is currently emulating a type of early internet experience that only nostalgic older millennials nerds crave. General users tend to prefer bigger platforms.
Lemmy is nostalgic? Lemmy is novelty for me. Looks and feels so modern. Simplistic, yet modern. Am I weird?
No I feel the same way. I think it’s because it’s part of an ecosystem of concepts built with all its predecessors mistakes in mind. There’s still learning to do but the foundation is simple but is also modern.
I'm 26, probably among the oldest of gen z. I love lemmy. The quality is higher here because the community is smaller. There are much less reports than there used to be on reddit.
Yeah Im like one of the youngest with an age of 14.But thats okay because lemmy is just awesome for me.
I mean, Reddit killed off ‘polished UX’ and that’s what drove me here. All the great 3PAs are on the Fediverse, after all!
My Soundblaster used IRQ 7. Why do I still know this.
Because when the great reset happens and VHS is hot shit again, you'll be ready.
"No, I can't come out tonight, I'm optimizing my CONFIG.SYS file so I can have a mouse AND my Soundblaster work at the same time!"
I use Ivory for browsing Mastodon, and I’d bet that the app is more polished than any other first-party social media app.
The problem with Mastodon (and Lemmy to some extent) is that the onboarding process is not as straightforward, thus causing some friction for the less tech-savvy users.
My take on this is not that this is the default early adopter demographic (bereal, TikTok, etc…cmon old dudes don’t act like we are “leading the charge”). But, there’s a good chunk of older tech oriented folks that see a glimmer of hope in the fediverse bringing back some bits of the “old web” imo.
While most of the people like me don’t love meta or Twitter it was kinda good enough, but Reddit was kind of a last straw. I was there when all these companies were born and at the time we were all teen and 20-something early adopters (believe it or not even Facebook used to be cool!) and we’ve watched them all slowly degrade. Very young folks prob don’t care as they don’t really use any of these services, but us old nerds want to avoid the pitfalls of the Web 2.0 era.
Web3 and the crypto-decentralization efforts were really ham fisted…I think most experienced techies saw through all the BS and recognized how wildly inefficient it all was, not to mention outright scammy in many cases. Fediverse is unproven but I think it has potential, and I think many of us older techies feel that way.
First thought when I read the title. Surprisingly, the early adopters of a new, not particularly user friendly tech platform are the same as people who use other niche technologies
You picked the thoughts out of my head, and worded it much better.
I gotta disagree with you on one point: Facebook was never cool.
aka: early tech adopters!
these folk are always the ones trying new things, especially anti-corporate things. They aren't keeping people away. this is just how the bleeding edge of new technology. The communities natural grow out over time as more people show up and start to outnumber them. But it's thanks to them that niche new stuff gets supported in the first place while it builds up it's audience (and reduces the friction to joining)
Without hobbyists most all new recreational activities just won't take off. People don't become professionals and things don't become usable until those who have more passion and time than sense tackle it first.
In reddit's early days, it was exactly like this. I remember that it felt like a Linux user forum, but with some conspiracy theorists. I actually feel that lemmy is a little more diverse than that.
That's what I'm here for lol. I mean this is how reddit was when I first started there. Same with digg
This place reminds me so much of early reddit. It's been a strangely nostalgic experience so far. The part of that which I'm enjoying the most, is that commenters are more polite to each other as far as I've seen
Everyone writes in clear, concise and grammatically correct sentences too lol. It’s slightly surreal.
Yeah, and there are apps. I don't have to drag out my laptop.
I'm new here, and new to federated applications (and fit OP's description perfectly). This federated stuff is going to remain niche unless somebody figures out a way to make it approachable.
Reddit first time:
> open app
> choose some things I like
> see all the things
Lemmy first time:
> open app
> ?????
> google how to use it
> choose a... server?
> ?????
I called this a few weeks ago on reddit and people weren't impressed with my negativity.
I'm sorry, but you can't start a website with:
Lemmy is a selfhosted social link aggregation and discussion platform.
And expect 95% of people to do anything other than close the window.
30 is just a baby. My son is 30. Im late 50’s.
I think older techies are just sick of all the bullshit regarding corporate aocial/web etc. A lot of us went to linux to escape windows hell for same reasons. Tech is abused to unfathomable levels so we do what we can to limit it.
I'm below 30, but I'm right there with ya. Even in my lifetime, I've seen enough stupid corporate shit.
I'm Gen Z, don't use Linux, don't know the first thing about programming (I know how to use file explorer though), and never intend to learn, and I'm here because I don't wanna use the official Reddit app and because I'm convinced that the Fediverse is likely to become big in the future and I wanna be able to say I was here when it all began.
This is me as well. gen z, hate that trillion dollar corporations run our social media. The fediverse is the future.
I'm a younger tech nerd, but I do use linux.
I'm 36. I'm tired of everybody taking my money. I'm tired of corporations. I'm here to get away from that.
I don't know what you're talking about, I'm just your average Hollywood celebrity here to promote my new movie "Barbie", only in theaters July 21st.
If I wasn't a tech nerd I would have given up on signing up for Mastodon and Lemmy. There is a lot of focus on how instances work and it seems a bit overwhelming. I had a lot of internal, 'what if I make the wrong choice', or 'how can I move if I don't like the community' type questions. So being the nerd I am I researched the crap out of it and overwhelmed myself and said fuck it and just chose the popular instances since I know that I can move at a later date.
I personally think this format is favored by a lot of the demographic you mentioned. Most of us, I am generalizing here, grew up being active members in bulletin board systems. Then Reddit came along basically murdered the BB, but there was a good community to interact with. Now Reddit is basically unusable in my opinion because the community doesn't care about the content or the people behind the screen. That brings us here. We learned so much of our trade, laughed a lot, and made real friendships on these types of system and it is a place a lot of us feel comfortable.
I don't want to stereotype anyone, but in my own social experience, younger groups don't give a shit about corporate monopolies or privacy, they just want things to work fast and automatically (ex: TikTok). And those I know in older brackets are still on Facebook and complaining that they don't want to deal with change because their family/business/workflow would be affected.
I happen to be 38, a linux user, and a gamer. And I concur that my age-group has just always seemed to be more open to new technologies for some reason.
The Fediverse is the Linux of the social media world. Normal people don't know it exists, but it will shape the inner workings of the platform(s) that will be popular in the future.
Closest I’ve felt to BBS since, well, BBS.
I thought Lemmy didn't collect info about me 🧐
That profile is very much the early adopters of any new platform or technology. If you described the early users of the internet as a whole, it would be very similar.
I don't think anything particular is keeping other users away, it's early. We need evangelist, I suspect that most normies don't even know the fediverse exists, let alone are considering using it.
We just need to continue to grow the reach of the fediverse, don't give up if it seems a bit bare and give everyone else a reason to join us
I actually like where the Fediverse is now. And I think a long trajectory of slow growth will be very good for it.
Reddit is a great example of the "enshitification" process at work. A community grows way too big, way too fast. People don't adopt the norms, the norms change. That's why the front page of Reddit is full of "Am I ugly?" Posts when it used to be (more) high quality discussions with a bunch of nerds. Hacker news is a good example of a slow-growing community which has mostly maintained an environment of intellectual curiosity.
Excellent blog post about this here: https://www.marginalia.nu/log/82_killing_community/
The youth have an innate pressure to follow trends and their peers. They need and crave social acceptance while still lacking the means to be independent and "go their own way", so it's not viable to expect younger users to form the bulk of pioneering users of an unproven platform like the fediverse.
Older user will generally be more confident and independent, especially when the craving for social approval is not as powerful as it was in younger users.
I think anyone that fits in those 3 categories just tend to be the early adopters. The normies come later. 😁
Is picking a server/federation too complicated?
Yes.
Absolutely.
Literally the single biggest problem with fediverse adoption, brought up in every discussion about migrating to it. It will never replace centralized sites as long as it remains confusing and complicated.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LemmyMigration/comments/145epgc/looking_for_a_lemmy_website_try_lemmyworld/
Woah now, who said people over 30 are old? 😮
Anyway, your average internet user in 2023 wants to sign in to a platform with ease (preferably using one tap sign in with their Facebook/Google/whatever account).
They also want that one platform to have everything, in an easy to access and digest format, without having to learn complex rules about how a system works.
The days of needing to understand a bunch of stuff to use the latest social media service are gone, and if we build a website/service that requires us to know and understand more complex stuff, and add more barriers to entry, and MOST IMPORTANTLY if we split it up in to a thousand little corners instead of having it all in one place? People will shy away.
Another issue is consistency. People, myself included, want consistency and accountability. I want the people running the platform to be publicly known figures/companies that are accountable for the platform and how they run it, but with this fediverse stuff, it can be run by any anonymous person, who could be doing anything with the private data in our account back ends. And that could be the case hundreds of times over, with all sorts of groups, from all around the world.
There's no accountability, no way to ensure they're meeting requirements of our laws. It's all very untrustworthy and wild west.
That's fine for some people, but the majority of normal users? They want security, they want safety, they want simple ease of use.
I feel the two big reasons are:
The average user of a site like Reddit probably hasn't noticed any significant changes; or if they have, they just don't see them as a problem. So they don't have any significant incentive to emigrate to another site. On the other hand, people who are tech-savvy notice the changes; and decide they need to move.
To a lot of people, the Fediverse is just not as convenient as centralized sites. People who are more tech-savvy and/or use Linux, are willing to put up with a bit of inconvenience in exchange for using a site they see as better.
It's also worth keeping in mind that right now, the Fediverse is still in its early days. Every site in its early days generally has a broadly similar userbase- people who are familiar with technology and willing to put up with some inconvenience because they see the potential.
30s software engineer / linux user here.
We are exactly who you want as the "primer" user group. We will collectively make sure the whole thing works before the load really rams up.