this post was submitted on 19 Nov 2024
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Asklemmy

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Hey everyone, I'm new to Lemmy and just starting to figure this site out. I mainly moved here because of the censorship on Reddit where they didn't publish posts that included the slightest word not allowed by their filter and they removed/blocked lots of content. I wonder if it will be somewhat better here (on the official site it says "Censorship resistant - By hosting your own server, you can be in full control of your content.").

The weird thing I saw with Lemmy was when I wanted to sign-up on the "lemmy.ml" server instance that according to the official Lemmy Servers listing page is a "A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts, run by Lemmy’s developers".

So I thought I try that one when it's from Lemmy's own developers. When I wanted to sign-up it required an application that you needed to fill out with one of the requirements being having to copy a sentence from the link provided which links to some article called "The Principles of Communism" which I thought was very odd for a site to do. I've never seen a site like this promoting some ideology that directly where it's part of the sign-up process to almost pledge to some political or religious ideology.

This seemed very sketchy to me. Does anyone know something about this?

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[–] GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 15 points 1 hour ago

To their credit, I think the Principles of Communism thing is partially meant as a floodgate, since the devs really do believe in their project and want to avoid over-centralization from everyone defaulting to one instance. They know many people will go "What the hell? No!" and go somewhere else and that's exactly the point. I'd be surprised if they really thought it would get almost anyone to engage with Marxism with the prompt, especially since you can copy the first sentence of the text and not read anything else (and even just reading it is not engaging with it). I think it's more like a little joke.

Also, copying a sentence of your choice to a pamphlet is not a pledge and I think it's silly to view it that way. If it helps, iirc, one of the sentences that appears is "No." and they will accept that as an answer.

But assuming this was "promoting an ideology directly," would you find it less sketchy for an instance to promote ideology indirectly? Because if you aren't directly doing ideology, that just means you are indirectly doing it (sometimes very deliberately). Personally, I appreciate transparency.

[–] eldavi@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 56 minutes ago)

most people have answered your questions so i want to chime in the information that i wish someone had told me when i first joined:

a lot of people came to lemmy from reddit like you and i both did and also mostly for the same reasons. most of them went to lemmy.world because it was the first search result on the big search engines like google & bing. those people have turned lemmy.world into a mini reddit and ended up recreating the same problems that reddit has plus more; hence the bot check that you ran into when you signed up.

the original instances of lemmy all have a strong leftist bent; i think of it like if r/politics; r/anarchy/; r/communism; r/socialism; etc. went off and created another social media platform and then started discussing everything like reddit does, but from this perspective. instances is the name given to individual servers and all those servers combined is nicknamed the lemmyverse, or lemmy, for short.

the fediverse is the nickname given to the pubg protocol that's shared between all the platforms that use it like lemmy, mastadon, kbin, threads, bluesky, etc and that means that the conversations from all of those platforms are shared amongst each other so it's possible to be on lemmy and have a conversation with someone on kbin, for example. i stick with lemmy because it's doesn't have any venture capital investors pushing the admins to enshitify it to maximize profits like has been happening to reddit and bluesky; i've been moving from one social media platform to another because of enshitification like reddit's since the 1990s (before it was called social media) so this last part matters to me a lot.

i started off on lemmy.world like most ex-redditors did and discovered that they've duplicated the censorship thing that reddit likes to do with defederations so i switched to lemmy.ml since it doesn't defederate with anybody due to fact they're the primary instance where lemmy development takes place. the federation is what makes lemmy decentralized and when you defederate; you cut yourself off from the rest of the lemmyverse, but lemmy.world and some of the other instances that got most of the ex-redditors like the star trek instance use it to try cut off content and people from the instances that they don't like and that's their right since it's their instance. lemmy is decentralized so trying to cut out people & content only serves to cut yourself off and that's intention behind the fediverse; to make it so that no power tripping mod or ban happy admin can stop the conversation like they do on reddit.

everything is done by volunteers and donations and, if you don't like one instance; you can move onto any other one and still get a similar experience. i don't like letting other people decide what i can & can't see and who i can & can't talk to so i mostly stick to the instances that don't defederate with anybody like lemmy.ml and i use the block-people and block-communities features when i feel like i need them for myself.

[–] griefstricken@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 hour ago

Open source is inherently political and you depend on software being developed by communists. We are here to evade corporate censorship, censor reactionaries, spread agitprop, and discuss raising the quality of life of all working people.

Not just tech workers. Everyone.

[–] rentasonder@lemmygrad.ml 18 points 2 hours ago (1 children)
[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 hours ago
[–] can@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Censorship resistant - By hosting your own server, you can be in full control of your content.").

Yes, exactly, you can host your own or sign up at one someone's already hosts. The resistance is in the ability to choose which admins you trust and align with your views while still interacting with the rest of us.

The devs run their own and have their own rules and censorship but you don't have to sign up there. Does that help?

[–] Social_Discussion@lemm.ee 9 points 2 hours ago

Helps a lot, thanks for your answer!

[–] CrimeDad@lemmy.crimedad.work 22 points 3 hours ago

Seems like a simple task to help verify that you are not a bot. It might also help deter applicants who are anti-communist. I guess you solved the problem for yourself by choosing a different instance.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 2 hours ago

The developers of Lemmy are Communists, they don't hide this fact.

To answer your first question, there are no "free speech" instances in wide use, depending on your point of view an instance might be "censoring" or fighting "misinformation." It's up to you to pick an instance you want.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

This seemed very sketchy to me.

👻 A spectre is haunting @Social_Discussion@lemm.ee

Some of Ayn Rand’s earliest works are out of copyright now. Would that have made you more comfortable?

[–] Aria@lemmygrad.ml 12 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

Lemmy.ml is explicitly a Marxist Leninist instance of the Lemmy software. It's why it's called .ml. You can use a different instance if you aren't a Marxist Leninist. Lemmy.world is a Hitlerite instance.

Federation is censorship resistant, but each instance is still going to remove gross content for the sake of their users and instance culture. You can see removed content in the modlog, it's public for every instance running unmodified Lemmy.

As for why you need to copy/paste the sentence -- It sounds a lot like an anti-spam measure. Captchas and the like are extremely common, I'm surprised you find them novel. Are you asking this because you're planning a spam-attack and need to make sure the spam isn't removed? Your spam will be removed. While it's technically possible to go find, no one will care enough to do so.

[–] badelf@lemmy.ml 6 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

To clarify, Hitler and Marx are not in any way related. Hitler was a fascist, racist dictator (like Trump and Putin). True Marxism would be if the government of the USA was formed by, and responsive to the working class. A Marxist government (true communism) has an obligation to take care of it's workers, not let them die because they can't afford health care.

It's a short explanation, but it's pretty much correct. Join any server, and change later if you're not comfortable.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 4 points 42 minutes ago

Hitler and Marx are related if you’re a believer in horsesh~~it~~oe theory or in Hannah Arendt’s totalitarianism. You’ll never guess who funded and promoted Arendt (who unsurprisingly came from a wealthy family) and her theory.

One of the centerpieces of the cultural cold war was the Congress for Cultural Freedom (CCF), which was revealed in 1966 to be a CIA front. Hugh Wilford, who has researched the topic extensively, described the CCF as nothing short of one of the largest patrons of art and culture in the history of the world. Established in 1950, it promoted on the international scene the work of collaborationist academics such as Raymond Aron and Hannah Arendt over and against their Marxian rivals, including the likes of Jean-Paul Sartre and Simone de Beauvoir.

[–] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (1 children)

So um here's the thing.

The fediverse is a network of interconnected servers/instances that are independently hosted.

Within the fediverse, there's Lemmy

There are many different "servers" (I'm just gonna call it servers, instances is not a commonly used word) of Lemmy. Each have different owners. But they all run the Lemmy software of their servers.

The Lemmy software is an open source project, contributed by many different people who know how to code. The main developers believe in Marxism-Leninism, basically what countries like USSR and People's Republic of China claim to also follow this ideology (or at least they used to).

lemmy.ml is one of the first servers, run by the main developers.

So there, if you disagree with their ideology, you should probably use a different server.

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[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 10 points 3 hours ago

There's plenty of censorship on Lemmy, but unlike Reddit, the censorship is orchestrated by the individual server, not by a corporation in control of the whole ecosystem. Go post something pro-capitalist on lemmy.ml, or something claiming climate change is a hoax on slrpnk.net, or something anti-trans on lemmy.blahaj.zone and see how fast it gets taken down - you could consider that censorship, but the reason Lemmy is better than Reddit in this regard is that you can go post that same thing on another instance, in a community that supports those views, and it'll stay up. It's all up to the administration of the individual instance.

Even if you can't find an instance / community that will espouse your unique views, you can create your own, and post whatever you like, and everyone who federates with you will be able to see it. That's how Lemmy is resistant to censorship.

I'm not touching the lemmy.ml question with a ten foot pole, someone else can field that one.

[–] WeirdGoesPro@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago) (15 children)

The original developers of Lemmy are communists who were seeking to create a social media space that would be free from corporate censorship and centralization. When they created ml, they decided to have it be geared towards communists and leftists as their specific flavor of the Lemmy community, because that is what interested them.

If you are looking for a less political and more general instance, I’d recommend:

lemmy.world
sh.itjust.works
lemmy.dbzero.com

[–] NaevaTheRat@vegantheoryclub.org 2 points 14 minutes ago (1 children)

lmfao dbzero terms of service is literally to follow the anarchist COC, hosts Lefty memes, and one of the largest anarchist communities.

World is peak neoliberal, has a stupid media bias bot calibrated for neoliberal positions as centrist, and is explicitly aligned with the USA in law and ethos.

Shitjustworks is similar to world but Canadian.

Life is political and people hosting online communities have ideologies. Shock horror I know. An ideology being invisible to you because you are raised in it does not make it any less explicit.

[–] davel@lemmy.ml 1 points 1 minute ago* (last edited 47 seconds ago)

An ideology being invisible to you because you are raised in it does not make it any less explicit.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_hegemony

And invisible ideology in the imperial core today is zombie neoliberalism.

[–] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 18 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

All 3 of those are highly political instances, though. Lemmy.world is overwhelmingly liberal and enforces that bias, and dbzer0 is mostly Anarchists. Sh.itjust.works is the least overtly political but leans liberal.

[–] fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

And leans towards eating lots of glitter. At least in my experience.

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