It's telling that Apple is trying to develop Proton-like tools for macOS, but even Valve, who are very actively developing them for Linux and have invested in porting software to macOS for years, are sort of giving up. Apple is so, so bad at working with game devs, it's amazing. I'm guessing they did their own thing internally and just published it instead of actually working with Valve and listening to the industry, as always.
this post was submitted on 10 Oct 2023
70 points (100.0% liked)
Gaming
30428 readers
343 users here now
From video gaming to card games and stuff in between, if it's gaming you can probably discuss it here!
Please Note: Gaming memes are permitted to be posted on Meme Mondays, but will otherwise be removed in an effort to allow other discussions to take place.
See also Gaming's sister community Tabletop Gaming.
This community's icon was made by Aaron Schneider, under the CC-BY-NC-SA 4.0 license.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
In terms of numbers (according to the Steamwide statistics, which may be different than CS:GO), MacOS isn't that far behind Linux in terms of usage. I get that Valve is pushing Linux and all, but this a bit scummy (saying this as a Linux user)...
Unless there is more Politics involved. My understanding (and I may be wrong) is that developing software for Apple is basically a quagmire of regulations, proprietary lockout and big pits you need to pour money into.
Also, strictly reading https://help.steampowered.com/en/faqs/view/73EF-08A3-0935-6369 they didn't say that they were discontinuing it BECAUSE of lack of playerbase, but that they didn't expect it to have much impact due to the small playerbase. Low player count is probably one reason, but I suspect there might be more factors in play.
EDIT: I know the article does mention the API issues, but I'm just a bit annoyed that they decided to title it the way they did for clickbait.
They say at the end of the article that poor API support is likely influencing their decision as well.
Apple just shoots itself in the foot with proprietary APIs that nobody else supports. Why should Valve write an additional translation layer for an OS that's less used than Linux? macOS was always bad for gaming, it merely got worse.
For games, a big one is that none of the common APIs are supported, apple just supports Metal and nothing else. There are compatibility layers, but it's a hurdle.
Valve's statement adds that players using DirectX 9, 32-bit operating systems or macOS "represented less than one percent of active CS:GO players". Dumping these platforms makes sense from that perspective, but it's a bitter pill to swallow for the Macintoshers amongst us or those who, for whatever reason, play on very old PCs.
from rock-paper-shotgun
I'm all for games being as cross-platform as possible, but considering how Apple doesn't offer apps such as iMessage, Facetime, etc. on other platforms, I'm less sympathetic to them for this.
Apple users chose a famously closed ecosystem, so they shouldn't be surprised when some things aren't available to them.
The issue here is that Counter Strike Global Offensive did have official Mac support. Then when CS2 came out, Valve replaced the CSGO client with CS2, rather than making it a new client, and then announced they're cutting Mac support. There is still a weird way to launch GO, but good luck finding players to play against now. It was pretty shitty of them to not leave GO as its own client or to not continue supporting Mac. This isn't quite a case of a new game not having Mac support, what happened from Mac users' point of view is their counter strike game updated and now they can't play it anymore.
I have a feeling this response is directly related to how Linux users for yeeeeeeears have been told "we won't support Linux because there just aren't enough users to justify it". Now that there are official more Linux users than Mac users it makes sense to support Windows and then Linux if you can only afford to support the 2 biggest operating systems, but yeah, I really think this is more about Valve pulling a switcheroo on the usual "not enough users to support Linux" line we always hear.
Or... you know, maybe because of that little gadget that Valve has been selling like hotcakes?
Of course, that's what I was implying. The Steam data set for Operating Systems includes the Steam Deck under "Linux" which is why it's suddenly jumped up above iOS users. I'm saying that I think Valve employees are obviously Linux enthusiasts and have heard that line from video game developers for years, so now it's giving them a little bit of schadenfreude to say it about iOS users.
They've made Linux gaming a thing. And there where no players there either. So I do not believe that is their actual reason.
The actual reason is that Valve does not want to be beholden or locked to a corporate entity like Apple or Microsoft. They would be very dependent on the whims of those companies.
Linux gives them a platform where they know and can influence it's future.
I don't like this decision, since I know the lack of support for different platforms than Windows as someone playing on Linux. Valve invests into proton and thus game support on Steam Deck and ChromeOS, so I'd have thought they'd make sure CS runs on macOS too.
Big difference I see from Linux and Windows is that they are OS that can be installed on different devices. MacOS is not the case, and even trying to get Linux to be stable and reliable on Apple hardware after the move to their own CPUs is a project in itself with Asahi Linux.
So I can see the lack of interest with how MacOS is a very restrictive Mac hardware only type experience for most people with how getting a hackintosh working is rather involved.
I’d have thought the pain point would have been the processor architecture (ARM64) rather than operating system - MacOS still supports AMD64 using a compatibility layer but it would probably be quite a drawback to game performance.
Valve has been using MoltenVK to run Dota2 on Mac1. I'm a bit worried that if Valve would cut the funding on MoltenVK2. Furthermore, CS:GO had been an example of a cross-platform example for multiple-player game. Valve's games may still support Linux/SteamOS, but what if other developers only release their games as win-only in future?
I agree. It's a mistake for Valve to reduce platform support as it becomes a justification for dropping other platforms for other developers as well.
I know that MacOS is a bit of a pain to support right now with how steam and third party applications are treated, but it would be a bigger issue for Apple to drop support if Valve maintained a strong presence on the platform via steam. With the way things are now, Apple might rip the bandaid off and just remove the ability to have third party stores on their computers. This is already what they do with Iphones/Ipads
This is pretty fucking shitty. This would be fine if they didn't supplant CSGO entirely with CS2, but they did.
Yeah they shouldn't have touched CS:GO on MacOS
Apple doesn't ship consumer systems with dedicated GPUs in them and they're on their own custom silicon now. Developing cross platform games for them must be a major PITA.
Apple has been working on a proton like compatibility layer for Mac, hopefully this will enable cs2 soon.
They could also try supporting Vulkan lol
Good. I hope more developers follow suit cause maybe it might finally convince Apple to start selling PCs with proper GPUs in them again. It won't happen, but I can dream.
I cant imagine apple cares all that much. They already gave up the PC gaming demo a long time ago while making quite a bit of money on mobile gaming.
Mac users are a.... special breed