Because pumps, hoses, valves, belts, filters...
In ten years my Leaf has needed new tires and wiper blades LOL.
this post was submitted on 25 Dec 2024
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Tldr; Cost of routine maintenance is higher on gas cars. Bases most of the argument on oil changes, which I'd argue was a smidge wonky. I mean, it's probably not wrong just felt less thought out than I would expect an argument to be.
No engine oil. No alternator. No traditional fuel system. No accessory belt. No ignition system. Much simpler transmission, usually with a single forward gear.
That's a whole lot of regular maintenance saved.
But those are cheap parts or last a long time. Soeagain wonky. Sure there is less but those are rareor cheap andeso the argument isn't convincing.
Over the life of the vehicle, all of that adds up, especially if you're taking your car to a shop, like most people do. On the other hand, tires on EVs wear a lot faster, due to their much greater weight compared to a similarly sized ICE car.
While it adds up I've had many vehicles and typically keep them for 10+ years and the vast majority of my maintenance costs have been things common with evs. Shocks, steering systems, ac - those things all add up and your ev has them too-
... Which makes those irrelevant when considering the differences between ICE and EV cost of ownership.
sure, but the difference isn't maitenance. yet everyone keeps talking like engines are still the unreliable messes they were 50 years ago.
if you want to talk about costs talk about the real difference: fuel cost which are much less. Fuel is also the largest expense after the initial purchase price. I would make most of a car payment just on that difference (and the car is due to be body rust). finding an ev that would replace my ninivan is hard (id.buzi is the only choice and that just came out - I haven't verified it meets the other requirements though)
The article posted is about maintenance costs.
An oil change anymore costs at least $50. Alternators fail. Fuel pumps fail. Spark plugs wear, less than they used to, but still. Ignition coils fail. Valve cover gaskets leak. Intake and exhaust manifolds leak (or break themselves). Oil pan gaskets leak. Exhaust rusts. Catalytic converters get stolen. Accessory belts wear out. Timing belts wear out. Air and fuel filters get clogged. There are many more sensors and solenoids in an ICE drivetrain than in an EV.
Yes, the difference in fuel cost is primary and substantial. Again, the article posted is about maintenance/repair costs, and there's simply not as many things in an EV to fail, or most importantly leak.
Batteries need to be replaced....and they're 10-20k...soooo...yea.
Recent EV batteries function fine to at least 200K miles.
Gas motors don't need to be replaced at 200k miles.
Only if you keep up with all of their maintenance religiously for that time. Maybe.
I mean...that goes for electric cars as well. The mass majority of gas cars do 200k miles easily. I have multiple cars and trucks with 250k+ miles.
What kind of regular maintenance does an EV motor and battery require? ~~Coolant change at 150K miles or 15 years?~~ Edit: Coolant change at 120K then ~24K after that, so four coolant changes.
ICE would need:
Coolant (many times) Oil (many many times) Oil filter (many many times) Timing belt or chain (at least once, possibly twice) Timing belt tensioner (at least once, possibly twice) Timing belt idler pulley (at least once) Water pump (probably) Various oil seals and gaskets Spark plugs (twice) Ignition coils (probably) Serp belt (likely three or four times) Serp belt tensioner (at least once)
Edit, more:
Battery (at least twice) Alternator (probably) Fuel pump (probably) Fuel filter (more than once) Injectors (possibly replace, definitely clean)
What kind of regular maintenance does an EV motor and battery require? ~~Coolant change at 150K miles or 15 years?~~ Edit: Coolant change at 120K then ~24K after that, so four coolant changes.
The motor? Not much. Rest of the car still needs maintenance, brakes, brake fluid, making sure that parts that require grease are greased, tires(way more often than ICE) and don't use fast chargers or fill your battery to full constantly, also don't drive or live in extreme weather conditions.... basically 90s is extreme and 10* is extreme. These conditions lower the battery life itself.
Coolant (many times)
Huh? Have you ever owned an ICE vehicle? Coolant doesn't need to be changed but maybe once in 200k miles when you change the water pump.
Oil (many many times) Oil filter (many many times)
Older cars do 6-8k miles per change. New ICE cars can do 30k+ so it's like 7 times for new cars.
Timing belt or chain (at least once, possibly twice)
If its a chain then no.
Timing belt tensioner (at least once, possibly twice) Timing belt idler pulley (at least once)
You're just listing off the same job here. You don't change this stuff by itself, its part of a TB job.
Water pump (probably)
Same here, pretty much all cars now have the TB running the WP. So you just change it during the TB change.
Various oil seals and gaskets
Uhh? Which are what? I have 300k miles on my 22 year old landcruiser... valve cover gaskets I've done once... everything else is still the original stuff.
Spark plugs (twice)
Sure
Ignition coils (probably)
Part of the spark plug job.
Serp belt (likely three or four times)
No. Once.
Serp belt tensioner (at least once)
Same job.
Edit, more:
Battery (at least twice)
Maybe, depends on how shit the battery is.
Alternator (probably)
Nope
Fuel pump (probably)
Not a chance.
Fuel filter (more than once)
Once if that, most don't need to. Gas is heavily refined and most people aren't putting dirt into their tanks
Injectors (possibly replace, definitely clean)
Nope, most injectors will do 200k easily.
There are zero ice cars that have 30K oil change intervals. If you’re changing oil every 30K miles, there is no way your engine is making it to 200K.
Huh? There are a bunch of manufacturers now that have motors that do 10-15k, 20-30k mile oil changes. The hell are you talking about. The myth of the 3k mile oil change was created by the quick lube places to get money. I do my changes on a 22 year old car every 8k miles, new motors have way tighter tolerances and do way better on oil than older motors.
8K is reasonable. 30K is not. Source?
BMW has a good number, hell Toyota rav4, mini Coopers, mercs. You're behind the times if you think this is not true. Full synthetic oils and tighter tolerances in motors have gotten motors to this point. It's not 1953 where the motors consume oil and topping them up during fueling is a thing.
Toyota vehicles where 0W20 is required have a 10K mile oil change interval. The rest are all 5K.
https://support.toyota.com/s/article/What-are-the-oil-chan-7604?language=en_US
Can't find anything specific on the Mini Cooper, different dealers are saying anything from 4K miles to 12K miles. BMW dealers are saying anywhere between 5K and 15K. Mercedes looks to be every 10K miles.
Nothing anywhere for anything you've cited says 30K miles. Again, source?
https://www.galaxytoyota.net/service/service-tips/toyota-rav4-maintenance-schedule/
That's 2 seconds of google.
First change is at 10k the next is at 30k, and that's a rav4. This isn't new, oils have gotten way better and motors are engineered at much higher tolerances.
Maybe read a little better?
The 20,000-mile mark is another oil change and oil filter replacement.
It's got a 10K mile oil change interval, from the very page you linked. Never mind that the link I posted above was from Toyota the manufacturer.
Nothing anywhere for anything you've cited says 30K miles. Again, source?
Here is audi, 20k mile
At the end of the day, it's not the oil, it's the filter. Most are good for 10-15k max, cheaper to just change the filter and keep going.
That's a 20k mile oil from amsoil, directly being advertised as such.
There are a bunch of manufacturers now that have motors that do 10-15k, 20-30k mile oil changes.
https://maintenance.audiusa.com/#/search
Audi appears to call for 10K mile oil changes, though I'm not going to check every single year and model.
AMSOil is good stuff, but they're not an automobile manufacturer.
Nothing anywhere for anything you've cited says 30K miles. Again, source?
this kinda stuff always seems silly for someone who does their own oil/maintenance. once i can replace my own batteries for ~1/3rd the cost, MAYBE i’ll be interested.
That would be like me saying I'd go from EV back to gas if I could replace my own engine. Yes, it's a very expensive thing if you need to do it, but it's also very unlikely to be needed. EVs are starting to age, and batteries have generally held up just fine outside of the Nissan Leaf (which doesn't have a proper thermal management system)
Hm. Well, anecdotally, I shared the cab with a guy towing my ice, and he mentioned he alone has towed no less than 40 teslas since the beginning of the year. I'm in the tropics, and they have dealerships here, so these aren't necessarily refurbs. There aren't a whole lot of them here, most EVs on the road are usually byds or another chinese brand. Make of that what you may.
Any particular reason they're getting towed for? I mean if they're involved in accidents that's not much reason but if they're breaking down that'd be news
It wouldn't be news at all. Tesla is the least reliable car brand in history.
I keep on wanting the airless tires to become a thing. electric car with airless tires. About as worryfree as you can get day to day.
Wait until you need to replace a battery cell in a Tesla and they quote you $20k to replace the whole thing.
At this point if you buy a Tesla it's your own fault
Any EV really, the battery replacements will be ridiculously expensive.
At any point if you bought a Tesla, it was your own fault. Elon has spent the better part of the last 2 decades overpromising, hyping up his unbelievable claims, underdelivering, and gaslighting everyone into thinking his " will be ready by the end of next year" promise hasn't been made every year.
Cool. How long do I need to wait?
Of course, less parts means less maintenance