this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2023
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To the old heads and massive basketball junkies here. Was MJ so good at his peak you would rather have him than any two superstars at the time? For example would a team rather have MJ than a Hakeem and Barkley at their peaks?

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[–] DrownedInBeans@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

For most of the 90s/late 80s I think I'd take any two of:

  • Olajuwon

  • Robinson

  • Shaq

  • Malone

  • Charles Barkley

  • Pippen

over Jordan. But that's probably the full list (Ewing is a maybe).

[–] angel2timez@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Lebron averages like 3 less points than MJ for his career. Rather have him and add Curry, Jokic, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Kobe or a bunch of other players

[–] ConfuciusBr0s@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Id rather have LeBron than 2 prime MJs

[–] Manners2210@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] blanktheory@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

depends on the superstars, i’d take just mj over for example. the harden x dwight duo houston had. or the kyrie x luka duo(obviously haven’t seen in full effect yet). just depends on the caliber of superstars.

[–] KingRicimer@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Kyrie has never been a super star level talent and Dwight was nowhere close to that level on the Rockets

[–] blanktheory@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

i’ve seen people call both of them superstars on this sub and on twitter that’s not my personal distinction personally i was speaking broadly. i did see someone call rockets dwight a superstar on twitter like a week ago (i agree he wasn’t one at the time but he was a top center)

[–] AnyaTaylorBoyToy@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] HeAintSh1t@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I’m a 80’s baby. Idgaf who the other two are, in taking the dude from Space Jam!

[–] Qruoa73@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

It’s unheard of to win multiple NBA Championships with only 1 HOFer. So the answer is “no.”

[–] Kimber80@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] agk927@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

No way! You could have LeBron and KD at the same time

[–] penguin_torpedo@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

If you gonna even start to make that question, then you gotta do it with idk Tatum and Booker, something like that, not 2 MVPs.

[–] TheRealJohnMara@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I mean it depends, does your team already have a solid #2 or superstar of its own, like say Scottie Pippen? If not then no, give me Shaq and Bird.

[–] SenorMcNuggets@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Fr some people act like Scottie wasn’t a star in his own right. MJ left a 57-win team a month before the season and Scottie carried that team to 55 wins. They floundered in the playoffs, but the same thing happened when MJ returned the next season.

MJ gets his roses, and rightfully so, but people who act like Scottie was just some role player are wild.

[–] colon-mockery@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Definitely no. MJ needed Scottie.

[–] No-Test6484@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

To put it like that I would take giannis and jokic over mj anyday. I’d probably take LeBron and any decent all star over MJ. MJ was good but his team was also really good. Pippen was a top 5 player in the league

[–] DerekMorganBAUxxi@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Pippen was never top 5 player in the league in any year even in 1994

[–] Open_Platypus1573@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

He literally finished third in MVP voting in 1994 lol, and the drop off between fifth and sixth that year in voting share was significant.

You are flat out objectively wrong.

[–] junkit33@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

What specific year are you talking here? I think that matters a lot - I could possibly built a case for a specific year or two, but I do think it would be tough.

Even during his later career when most of the top NBA players were aging and on the decline, you'd still have to argue Jordan over a Shaq/Robinson pairing.

In the 80's no fucking way.

[–] claimsman11@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (2 children)

no, but i dont believe he played in a particularly competitive era.

it was post expansion, with many of the greats who proceeded jordan, retiring earlier than expected to due to injury (Bird, Magic, Isiah). Pair that with a few of unfortunate deaths (reggie lewis, len bias, drazen), and you have a pretty big talent draught (not to mention the amount of talent that left the league or never realized their potential due to the rampant substance abuse in the 70's/80's. Then you bend the rules to force players into more one-on-one situations (illegal defense rules, hand checking), and a big physical guard who physically outmatches most guys is going to dominate. Then lets put him next to the second or third best wing (also the greatest perimeter defender of all time imo) of his era for ten years.

i think jordan is either the first or second best player ever, but i think his dominance deserves a nuanced discussion as there was a lot of wind in his/the bulls sails. Ultimately, you play the competition that you get, and he took care of business, thats why he is probably the goat, because nobody dominated their era harder. But, i think it is insulting to other great players, to think the gap is as big as some would lead you to believe.

[–] HalfBear-HalfCat@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

You didn't close one of your parentheses.

[–] claimsman11@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

you right, i deserve the downvotes for that

[–] RIPDrRivers@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

You’re 100% correct but Jordan’s mythos is undefeated. The 90s are the second weakest decade next to the 70s( starting with 60s because lol basketball before Russell).

[–] wjbc@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I would rather have Jordan and Pippen than any other two superstars from the 1990s. Jordan and Pippen just worked so well together, and there's no guarantee other superstars would mesh as well.

[–] graveyeverton93@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Absolutely not. There is literally proof that MJ couldn't win until Pippen developed into an All Star and Jordan had a second superstar next to him, it's called the 80's.

[–] icanseeyourpantsuu@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Give me Wilt plus Giannis instead.

[–] HaikuPapi@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

A team with the best player in the league will always lose to a team with second and third best players.

Bron was better than both Steph and KD. He lost when they teamed up.

If the second and third best players team up when Jordan plays basketball every single peak year, Jordan does not win a ring because no superstar does in that scenario.

[–] RVAIsTheGreatest@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

If we're talking about MJ with a team of plumbers, basically MJ the only star on an individual team...there's a ton of combos I'm taking over him individually if I wanna win.

[–] notflashgordon1975@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

MJ was great, but jesus so many people forget how elite Pippen was too. The answer is no.

[–] Adventurous-Carob-53@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] EggManWhoHa@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

MJ was not just a superstar, he was a leader of men. these new superstars just care about themselves. Jordan demanded his teammates play up to par with his level of passion. KD is one of the greatest scorers and all around basketball player the league has every seen, but he just doesnt care as much, prob the money these dudes get paid. i wouldnt care either.

[–] iCE_P0W3R@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

I think the only playoff series win MJ had before Pippen was the starter was against the Cavs, when we get The Shot in Game 5 of a 5 game series. I’m pretty sure that was his MVP/DPoY season too, so it’s not like he was too inexperienced to succeed or anything like that.

Maybe if he played he could have a 2018/2007 Lebron kinda run, where he can succeed when the best competition is the rising Tatum Celtics or the Ben Wallace-less Pistons, but I mean I imagine any actual competitor would make easy work of him. An MJ carry-job for sure is getting swept by the KD Warriors.

[–] goodnsaultey@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago
[–] The_What_Stage@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

If you are giving MJ the supporting cast of the 96-97 Bulls, then yes, I think I would take him (and that team), over a 96-97 bulls team without MJ, but with two other 90's super stars.

If his supporting cast sucked, then I think the power of two superstars would be too much advantage.

[–] Green-Umpire2297@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago

Hell yes. I’d rather have peak lebron than Steph and KD, too.

[–] GenghisFarn@alien.top 1 points 11 months ago