this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2025
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[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 32 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (2 children)

Anyone offended by history needs to reflect on their priorities and identity.

I'm not offended that white people claimed this land at the point of a sword, and even worse, in the embrace of a smallpox blanket. Horrified, yes, but not offended. I'm not offended that the backbone of the economy for a hundred years was built on the backs of stolen people on stolen land.

I'm not offended by history.

What I am offended by is the present. I'm offended that people who have been oppressed and started out life with less than nothing have been told by the privileged elite to "pull themselves up by their own bootstraps like the rest of us did". That's fucking vile. I'm offended that we keep trying to whitewash confederate slave owning generals, instead of teaching who they really were, and what they really killed for, and ordered other people to die for. Be offended about what we are doing now, and use history as the reason why we should change it.

[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The thing that offends me about history is how we humans never learn a damn thing from it.

[–] DNS@discuss.online 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

It's incredibly jarring to have the burden of knowledge while others revel in their own ignorance. As a minority and a former Marine, I am deeply ashamed and disappointed in my fellow Americans.

[–] djsoren19@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

It's hard to really blame them, public education in the U.S. has been a nightmare for decades now. How can people be expected to learn from history if they're not even being taught to read?

[–] ContriteErudite@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

I do not think the problem is education, but a fundamental trait about human nature. Education, as an institution, can only lay the groundwork; it cannot instill the intrinsic desire to learn and grow. That fire must be kindled from within, yet so many treat learning as a phase of life rather than a lifelong pursuit.

There is a deep and persistent resistance to intellectual evolution in society. A cultural thread that regards curiosity with suspicion and introspection with discomfort. Too often, people conflate questioning with opposition, and the invitation to examine one's beliefs is perceived as an attack rather than an opportunity. This isn’t a failure of education; it’s a failure of cultural conditioning, perhaps even a failure of human instinct.

Nietzsche wrote: "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." Yet, instead of seeking out and embracing fluidity, many anchor themselves to certainty, mistaking stagnation for stability. They prefer to defend what they are rather than work toward what they could be. This anti-intellectual obstinacy isn't uniquely American or modern; it's something that's been with us from the start. I do not think we cannot educate our way out of the problems we keep making for ourselves; it's going to have to be either revolution, or evolution.

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago (1 children)

Its still frustrating though. Doubly so when you consider what American history actually is. Yes, we were started by colonizers and slavers. We also fought a war to throw off the British crown, fought a war to defeat those slavers and eventually brought abolition. And when they weaseled their way out of Reconstruction, we took to the streets. We marched to give women the right to vote and work, and to give queers the right to marry and bodily autonomy. And now, as a fascist traitor tries to undo all of that, we are called upon to uphold the tradition of our forefathers. To sweat, bleed, cry and die, until we live up to that pledge of liberty and justice for all.

[–] Bytemeister@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Right? Reading about European history, and that shit goes back to year 0 or further. Read American history, and it starts in the late 1400s... And that ought to tell you something real important right there.

[–] IzzyJ@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

I get the point your making, but American history goes back much further once you count the Natives; which admittedly my last comment also fucks up with

[–] damnedfurry@lemmy.world 10 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Regardless of what's being defended, this is a "poisoning the well" fallacy, and should be avoided as a rhetorical tactic. This particular example serves no purpose than the stroke the ego and sense of moral superiority of those on one side, and alienate those on the other, and create a divisive binary where there isn't one, and shouldn't be one.

Suppose someone argues that the solution is making sure no historical figures are diminished due to their race, not just during a certain month, but always, and therefore doesn't believe that focusing on a single race for an arbitrary amount of time is productive. Well, OP would dump them squarely into the 'enslavers and segregationists' camp, where they obviously do not belong.

I'm reminded of my gay friends who hate many modern pride events because they feel they do the opposite of normalizing homosexuality in focusing on garish oversexualized public displays. They'd be called homophobes by the equivalent of the OP--isn't that a bit ridiculous?

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[–] DirkMcCallahan@lemmy.world 80 points 2 days ago

If you treat minorities (or really, people in general) with respect, then you should have no qualms about learning about how they've been poorly treated in the past.

Sadly, conservatives never treat minorities with respect, and so they don't want to learn about how history judges bigots like them.

[–] lobut@lemmy.ca 32 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (1 children)

I went to school in the UK. We had to learn a whole lot shittiness that we did in the past. It's sort of funny because I'm ethnically Chinese and I moved to Canada later on. Whenever something bad that the British did came up, I would always be made fun of.

I moved back to the UK from Canada again at a later date and we were watching a video about more bad stuff the British did as apart of our curriculum and I immediately felt flush with embarrassment. Then I remembered that everyone around me was British too.

I sometimes wonder if the Americans that chastise the Chinese for wiping out history like Tiananmen Square are those that advocate for wiping out Black History Month and wanting to wipe contribution from minorities on their websites right now.

To be clear, I think that Black History Month should just be apart of American history. Like integrated into the curriculum and books and stuff. However, you can't trust Republicans to just wipe it out entirely. They "say" they will and just never get around to doing it properly because Heaven forbid you feel a bit uncomfortable while learning things.

[–] Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago) (3 children)

The reverse isn't much better. I'm Dutch, and if you go to Indonesia, outside the cities there will often be people pointing out what awesome things the Dutch built "for them". It's super weird when the people your country exploited and abused start thanking you.

Indonesian person: "Oh, the town well, yeah the Dutch built that for us, but we can't maintain it, so now we walk down to the other well to get water. The Dutch were so nice to us. "

My brain: "Yeah, I can see how that totally makes up for a century and a half of murderously harsh exploitation and killing 200.000 indonesians when you tried to be independant"

My mouth: "Oh, that's... nice?"

Now, I get that everything the Dutch did kinda gets snowed under compared to what the Japanese and the Americans did in the span of a few decades, but I grew up when our history books moved from a half-page "And then there were some police actions in the East Indies, and suddenly there was Indonesia" and towards a somewhat more realistic picture.

[–] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

People get nostalgic for order and predictability that came at the point of a gun. “At least we had food and everything wasn't falling apart!” Plenty of Russians I’ve been around remember the “good old days” under authoritarian “communism” and were unhappy with the turmoil and unpredictability when the USSR collapsed, and they’re the same ones that are happy with Putin’s and trump’s authoritarian methodology and threat of violence to enforce compliance.

So people absolutely can have a fondness for their abusers, especially if freedom from them leads to unpredictability and poverty.

[–] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 3 points 2 days ago

A lot of former Soviets liked the old system because in spite of the oppression and corruption most people had their needs met. After the fall of theUSSR many no longer could make their ends meet.

[–] vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago (2 children)

Folks do it with Rome so its nothing new, the carcus of empires are far more noticeable than the corpses of the folks used in the foundations.

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[–] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 7 points 2 days ago (4 children)

I really want either a miniseries or a bunch of movies telling the story of the Haitian Revolution. Sadly, that seems to never be able to get funded. It’s almost as if Americans or the French, who would be most likely to tell the story, don’t want people to know this story.

[–] MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago

Well there's always the play Toussaint Louverture, written in 1934. Paul Robeson played the title role in 1936 in London. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toussaint_Louverture:_The_Story_of_the_Only_Successful_Slave_Revolt_in_History

The playwright, CLR James, later wrote a book about the revolt, and revised his play, which went on the stage as The Black Jacobins.

From the Wiki: "In 2018, it was announced that the book was going to be made into a television programme thanks to Bryncoed Productions, with the assistance of Kwame Kwei-Armah."

Bryncoed was founded by Foz Allan. I did a bit of poking around but found nothing linking either of them or Kwei-Armah with The Black Jacobins. I would love to see a TV series on the revolt, I hope something comes to pass. CLR James was an interesting fellow too, his achievements deserve more recognition.

[–] zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 days ago (1 children)
[–] MathiasTCK@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

There is a lot of good history boardgames can teach. And fun alternate history they can create :)

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[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 7 points 2 days ago (1 children)

I don't have strong feelings one way or another, with one exception: why in the hell did anyone think it was okay to own a person and why the fuck did it continue for as long as it did?

That's seriously fucked up.

I'm not a person of color, so I don't think my opinion matters much in the discussion. Black history is just a part of the history of humanity. It should not be erased, it should be viewed as a lesson, like most of the rest of history.

[–] alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

why in the hell did anyone think it was okay to own a person and why the fuck did it continue for as long as it did?

Because it made them a lot of money. You can go back to any point in history and find people saying slavery is immoral, and not just the enslaved people.

[–] MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 day ago

So what you're saying is.... Capitalism is the problem.

DOWN WITH THE SYSTEM!

[–] rickyrigatoni@lemm.ee 5 points 2 days ago (1 children)

"B-b-b-b-but where's WHITE history month????? uncontrollable sobbing"

[–] samus12345@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Every month is white history month! Yes, February as well.

[–] solsangraal@lemmy.zip 21 points 2 days ago (1 children)

nothing triggers fragile white nationalist bumpkins like 1/12th of the year being set aside to recognize black people

[–] xor@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 2 days ago

https://youtu.be/MpnpIhqSLto
i like morgan freeman’s take on black history month

[–] sumguyonline@lemmy.world 12 points 2 days ago (1 children)

George Washington Carver, IS NOT the man that carved up George Washington...Bart. He is probably one of my most revered entities because I genuinely don't know if he actually expected to find all of the uses he did for peanuts. His genius borders on insanity and I love it. I mean what single other person can say they found food, industrial, and cosmeceutical, uses for a single thing like the peanut? Most the other mass use products I've found had maybe 1 founder that found something interesting,(there is a few standouts including the creator of vaseline-he ate a spoonful a day for health go figure) but George Washington Carver turned peanuts into something that is still the cornerstone of industries(they remove the oil from peanut butter and sell it for industrial uses cuz it's worth so much, which is also why I'm upset at Mr Carver, peanut butter with the oil is delicious, but I digress that's a bit off topic). A quick glance at his Wikipedia indicates he actually did a ton more than peanuts, but the amount of uses he discovered personally has always astounded me. Those who are offended by history are likely trying to recreate a stupid mistake already made by others.

[–] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Too bad he went insane trying to press a peanut into a record needle. https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2ix03e?start=1221

[–] imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 days ago (4 children)

If you have morality doesn't it kind of suck to hear about century after century of slavery, violence, and exploitation?

Honestly I feel like if any type of history "slaps" then you're probably viewing it through a very narrow lens that omits an immense amount of human suffering. History is depressing as fuck. It can definitely serve a purpose to focus on the cool events and forget about the rest at times, but it's also misleading if that's all you do.

[–] Banana@sh.itjust.works 35 points 2 days ago (23 children)

I think they mean learning about history slaps. History is both interesting and extremely important even when it's depressing.

Encouraging learning about history is something we should continue to do, even if it means using collloquialisms.

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[–] MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

The History of Slap Fighting slaps

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[–] Dasus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Is this... controversial? o.O

It's fucking insane to watch watch happening in the US from other countries.

edit to make my position clearer, Django is a fucking awesome movie not because it shows slavery, but because it shows black history making me better able to empathise with it and it has crackers getting what they deserve (and I'm white btw and used to be I thought "cracker" meant the colour of like crackers as in biscuits, but then later learned it's because they're cracking a whip, which makes much more sense).

[–] psmgx@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago (6 children)

If you use the word "slaps" you're not talking to the population as a whole, you're talking to specific people. And likely ones who already agree with your point.

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