It’s between Kobe and Hakeem for me
this post was submitted on 24 Oct 2023
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Wemby
Even Wemby has more chance than Kobe.
Bill is not in my top 10. Offense matters. He's not top 10.
A bold take that will see you eating a lot of downvotes. I see where you're coming from. He's probably the most overrated player of the consensus top 10 guys, but it's also hard to evaluate him outside the context of his era. The game was almost a different sport at the time.
That's all very true and fair.
Yep, my personal top 10 lists never include Wilt and Bill. Not because I don’t think they’re great, but because they played in an era that’s legitimately impossible to rank.
Magic is not in my top 10. Defense matters. He’s not top 10
Offense is valued higher than Defense overall for me...not dismissing the impact of D though at all. Eras also are a factor. This is specifically about Bill being a low leverage, mediocre efficiency even for his era offensive player. Magic wasn't a great defender but he was better on D than Bill was on O and his O makes up for it.
Mostly joking, but I disagree with the sentiment of Magic Defense > Bill Russell Offense. Bill’s defense lead to offensive opportunities in transition, and he ran the fast break. The offense of the Celtics was also predicated on Bill Russell passing in the high post, moving the ball around and running dribble handoffs.
He’s no Shaq or Jokic on offense, but it’s not clear cut whether Magic defense vs. Bill offense, especially since Magic was a mediocre wing defender at best.
This is all my opinion anyways as a Bill Russell fan, so agree to disagree, but I think people don’t really realise how impactful his defense was, it was literally history changing the way the Celtics transformed with him on their squad
This is all very fair. Thank you for giving me something to think about a little.
Kobe
Either Kobe or Steph, hakeem is just outside of top ten in my opinion
Hakeem for sure.
One of the few players to be amazing on offence and defence, got a quadruple double and carried Kenny Smith and a pack of bums to back-to-back championships in the 90s.
The way that Kobe is treated on this sub needs to be studied by science.
The reality is that after Colorado, most people aren't going to like Kobe. He also wasn't someone who cared about being liked until the very end of his career. And considering the average age of reddit users, the majority of people on reddit didn't see his full career. His playstyle was far different than the style that followed it, as was his leadership style.
He's overrated for the same reason Kyrie is overrated and the same reason Melo was overrated and the same reason Jordan Poole is now being overrated. The bag. Elite player don't get me wrong. But overrated.
Comparing Kobe to Kyrie and Jordan Poole is exactly what I'm talking about lol
Kobe was a much better defender in his prime and scorer but they are very similar in style and skill. Kobe played for the most popular team in the most popular city at the biggest time . He’s an all time player and legend but not too 10 at all
JJ Barea
Dude it depends on who you are asking my guy
- LeBron
- MJ
- Kareem
- Shaq
- Wilt
- Steph
- Magic
- Larry Bird
- Tim Duncan
- Hakeem
- Kobe
- KD
- Oscar Robertson
- Bill Russell
- Karl Malone
- Kevin Garnett
- Dirk Nowitszki
- Charles Barkley
- David Robinson
- Kawhi Leonard
Honorable Mentions: Dwayne Wade, John Stockton, Steve Nash, Reggie Miller, Patrick Ewing, Allen Iverson, Giannis
Some of these players are interchangeable but I believe this is an accurate top 20.
I love Steph but how tf is he 6? He should be like 11 or 12.
Glad im not the only one who thinks Bill Russell is a tad overrated. Incredible defender, but underwhelming scorer even for back then, and won his rings with easily the best team in the league when there were what, 12 teams that existed?
There were actually only 8 teams for some of his rings IIRC.
It feels dirty disrespecting Russell because he's such a great and important figure for the league. It feels like attacking your own grandpa, but realistically he's not a top 5-10 player.
He's the Jesse Owens of basketball. Important for his historic value, but has been eclipsed by modern greats.
You really left Bill Walton out of your top 20 without even an honorable mention lol You dont know ball
Fix my list then, I've been watching since 1992 🤷♂️
Walton not even top 30 💀
20pts 23rebs 7asts 8blks to close out Dr. J and 76ers in the finals
Dr. J not even top 20 😂😂😂 mid on mid action. But after watching this video I see your point. Why Bill Walton is a top 5 player
People mad I made my list without Bias 😂
You seem a bit biased towards modern players and bigs
Out of 20 Players, only 4 I picked are in the NBA currently? How is that bias? I'm not even gonna comment on the second part of your comment. Again this is a greatest players list. It's positionless.
Your 11-20 looks fine, but in the top 10 you got three centers in the top 5 which is strange to me. I honestly couldnt justify having those bigs so much higher than Magic, Bird, etc but to each their own I guess.
And based on your #1 and #6 you clearly have some biases. Which is fine but don't say "without bias" lol
Steph Curry is the greatest shooting point guard of all time. Magic Johnson is the greatest consummate point guard ever. They are interchangeable based on preference and how your team is built.
Statistically speaking, James is doing better than Jordan and will have better stats when it’s all said and done. I'm not going to go into this, but if you have Jordan at #1, I respect it, if you have LeBron at #1, I respect it.
- Jordan
- Lebron
- Kareem
- Wilt
- Magic
- Shaq
- Bird
- Kobe
- Duncan
- Steph
No Russell? You're a joke.
Wilt and Bill IMO should be the odd men out of the top 10. They're still in the tiers of greatest players, just at the bottom of it.
It’s not worth ranking players. Tremont Waters, Tyler Zeller, Omari Spellman, PJ Dozier, Lou Amundson, TJ Leaf, James Young, Johnny Davis, Alexey Shved, Kai Jones, James Wiseman. You try putting these guys in order. I’m just glad I got to watch there careers❤️
Hakeem is my gatekeeper, with Oscar Kobe Steph Moses and KD rounding out top 15
You'll be shocked on how stacked those teams were with Bill, Magic, Bird, Wilt and they still gets their Top 10 ranking while Kobe won back to back with only one allstar and good role players in a stacked Western Conference with a legit superteam to beat.
Nephews always look at the efficiency but the 2000s is the slowest and least efficient era in the modern ages due to the removal of illegal defense and midrange heavy era.
In fact, check any superstar guards efficiency in that era and look how efficient Kobe vs them
Noteworthy teammates when they won a ring:
Magic - Kareem, Worthy, N. Nixon (16-3-8), J. Wilkes (17-6-2), B. Scott, AC Green, M. Cooper, B. McAdoo
Kareem - O. Robertson, B. Dandridge (HOF 18-7-4) + see LA teammates above
Wilt - Philly: H. Greer (19-5-4), B. Cunningham (21-10), C. Walker (18-7-2), LA - J. West, G. Goodrich (All HOF)
Bird - R. Parish, C. Maxwell, K. McHale, D. Johnson, T. Archibald (All HOF)
Don't tell me those teams they played with ain't stacked.
The funny thing is when people try to buff Odom and Gasol to diminish Kobe
Clowns in this thread couldn't even accept the fact that their top 10 players have superteams while Kobe's back to back run, only Gasol, Fisher and Ariza played significant roles afterwards while everyone else are out of the league (Artest did played but not with a contending team)
OP you are incredibly disrespectful
Chris Paul
The vast majority of people have Kobe much higher than 10, which is why this post is getting downvoted. Just last night I was watching Kobe lockdown defense highlights and I am convinced he was a better defender than Jordan, I have him over Bird.
Oscar needs to be there. No one will ever come close to being able to average triple doubles for entire seasons while averaging 30 pts.
this is a useless exercise, just comparing numbers. nobody active in this forum was watching Wilt, Kareem, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Oscar Roberson, Bill Russell or Hakeem while they were actively playing.
I bet 95% of the responses you'll get are from people who weren't even around to watch Shaq and Kobe play