this post was submitted on 27 Oct 2023
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Michael Irvin's football reference page: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/I/IrviMi00.htm

  • 1988: 14 games, 32 catches, 654 yards, 5 TDs
  • 1989: 6 games, 26 catches, 378 yards, 2 TDs
  • 1990: 12 games, 20 catches, 413 yards, 5 TDs

He was a former #11 overall pick at the time and I feel like any 1st rounder putting up those numbers would get lambasted. Was this the sentiment back then before he became a HOFer?

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[–] melonshakers@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Not at all, college back then ran elementary level offenses. The old saying was that WRs would break out in their 3rd year. That then became prevalent in fantasy football too as it grew in popularity. "Looking for the 3rd year WR sleeper". That eventually became 2nd year WR breakouts. In today's NFL and fantasy everyone is looking for the rookie breakout. This also coincides with college adapting more professional style offenses while at the same time NFL adopted more college concepts.

[–] JPAnalyst@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (3 children)

The problem with being old enough to have experienced his first few years, is that we are also too old to remember things.

[–] Get-Degerstromd@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Hey. Put a lid on it. I don’t need to be reminded of my rapidly degrading mind while surfing for dopamine hits on the internet.

[–] jtfriendly@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Who the hell is Michael Irvine?

[–] _Vacuum_@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago
[–] RamDEF7@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

WRs were not expected to put 1k+ yard season all the time like they are now.

[–] jdpatric@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Come on man...I'm not old.

[–] El_mochilero@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

The whole team stunk through those years.

[–] Educational_Sky_1136@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

He's averaging 18.5 yards per catch, and a TD every 6 times he touches the ball. There was no criticism of him.

[–] nevillebanks@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

There is a certain 2nd year WR averaging 22.7 yards per touch and scoring a TD on half of his touches that is getting significant criticism.

[–] whistlepig4life@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

I have to be honest. It was different then. There was no fantasy football. There was no constant daily reports and analysis on player performance. We watched professional football on Sunday afternoons and Monday night and that was it. And you usually only could see 3 maybe 4 games a week. 3 were televised in your area between 1 and 4. And then the Monday night game.

Also. And I am being honest so young folks don’t be offended. We weren’t so damn hyper judgmental about players. We gave them time to develop. Rarely did a guy flash immediately even first rounders. No one called for anyone’s heads after one bad game or one bad season. The attention span and patience level of todays average fan is so short it’s ridiculous.

But everyone also knew the Boys were bad at the end of the 80’s. Landry was trying to rebuild. But Jones after he bought the team in 89 had limited patience and wanted to get it turned around fast. Bringing in Johnson who promptly dumped their best asset and fleecing Minne in the process then drafting Aikman and being patient with him turned out to be right.

And just as Diggs made Allen a much better QB. Back then Aikman made Irvin better back then. Same as it ever was.

[–] enkafan@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

August 1989 the Dallas Fort Worth Star ran an article about the lack of praise Irvin was getting, noting he was being referred to as having the potential to be a good receiver

https://www.newspapers.com/article/fort-worth-star-telegram/134176138/

[–] AutomateAway@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

the discourse on the NFL was vastly different in that era

[–] ukhawksfan@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Yeah, I remember thinking we were so lucky to draft Brian Blades in the 2nd round who in his first four seasons was more productive than MI. But Irvin turned it around to become a HOF. Go Hawks

[–] AngrySteelyDanFan@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Something else to keep in mind, in 1990 there was 10 wide receivers in the whole league that had over 1000 yards. Last year, if I counted right, it was 22 receivers over 1000 yards. Stats are definitely more inflated in the modern game.

[–] swainbeatsshute@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

IMO he was not. Back then the narrative was controlled by ABC, CBS, NBC and ESPN (The networks had all of the games and ESPN just had reporters). Also Sports Illustrated and Sport magazine along with USA Today and your teams local paper. There was no social media. There was no Fox sports yet (1994). There was more patience with coaches and building a roster back then. If the team was making progress they stayed the course. Irvin was an important part of a team that, depending on who you believe was put together either by Jimmy Johnson or “Jerra”. Many of us non-cowboy fans may not have liked his brashness but he was a pretty darn good football player. They built an incredible line, this line protected Troy and provided Emmitt with holes bigger than a driveway. They used the run to set up the pass and controlled the clock. The other receivers and tight ends to help spread the ball too. Their defense was also pretty good.

[–] metaldinner@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

no, because back then it was understood it would take around 5 years to rebuild the team. fans generally didnt think a player was going to be at their peak year one. and the cowboys sucked hard at the time. so no, no one considered him a bust back then.

but teams often change drastically year to year now. and its kind of expected that first rounders will make an immediate positive impact. just a different time

[–] MalleableCurmudgeon@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

The Cowboys went 11-37 those three seasons. It wasn’t 88’s fault, and we had much bigger concerns.

[–] Extra_Napkins@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Late 80s Cowboys were fucking terrible so no one really cared

[–] 81brassjunkie@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

90s 49ers fan here...who is Michael irvin

For the longest time, WR was viewed as having a 2-3 year learning curve. Even guys like Larry Fitzgerald and Megatron weren’t studs their rookie years. OBJ is one of the first cases of the rookie WR breakout, and he set the standard.

[–] kamspy@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Players were expected to develop much slower than now. No problem at all

[–] first123074@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Cowboys as a team were really bad at that time.

[–] SvenDia@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Keep in mind that back then, sports discussions were at work, school or a bar, and consisted mainly of, “Did you see the [local team] game last night? and “Yeah, cool win, they’re looking pretty good.” And if the performance of another team’s wide receiver relative to their draft status was discussed at an office building a mile away, you would have zero idea that conversation happened and it would exist only in the memories of those involved in that discussion. Almost like it never existed. Weird, huh?

[–] devioustrevor@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Those Cowboy teams were absolute dogshit.

It wasn't until they put together than O-line that allowed Emmitt to run and gave Aikman time to pass that they became good.

[–] luckyincode@alien.top 1 points 1 year ago

Man I remember looking for shit to read in the newspaper as a kid in highschool.