Entrepreneur

You can work really hard trying to polish a turd but at the end of the day it’s still shit. Hustles work when you’re not doing a shit hustle.

It's all a pyramid scheme.

I'm new to Reddit. Want to get people to test out my prototype. Would appreciate any uparrows so I can post a bigger announcement

I love to hire people that post about hustle culture and sigma grindset. I can overwork them for the same pay.

If hard work was the only variable directly correlated with success and wealth, why are street cleaners, fisherman and other laborers not multi-millionaires; they can certainly outwork any of us.

So this alone disproves working hard as the only perimeter.

On the other hand the correlation between charisma, who you know, your family background and race all have far higher correlation to “success”

I used to be a COO, and if I saw ppl working late it would tell me they’re either over worked (and the system was assigning them too much work) or they were struggling (and were unable to meet the standard for the position), I would have estimates on the workloads in my financial operating model which would tell me things like the estimated targets and relative averages of how many clients and client hours per client manager for example.

I think unless you’re a shareholder in a business, it’s ultimately just a job, working harder doesn’t increase any reward for you, where as for a shareholder there is a correlation, but even then, some things just take time, you can’t make a baby in one month by getting 9 women pregnant.

I've considered this a lot considering I've lost the ability to relax for more than a day without being racked with guilt. The attitudes shoveled out by social media and influencers is not only toxic, it's completely fake.

For every entrepreneur sweating at a shop late at night there's a dozen influencers spreading lies about doing the same thing. A huge part of running a business is learning to work smarter with your model, not harder.

At the same time, you DO need to work harder than a 9-5 to succeed in most cases and success is unlikely to occur right away. So my perception is that "Grind culture" is a real and often necessary thing taken to extreme by people who don't recognize the danger because they've never actually participated in it.

In all honesty I’ve been working since I was a young child and I sincerely believe it’s something that is just in some people. I think there is too much emphasis on being successful RIGHT NOW and that if you fail your failures somehow make you a failure forever. Fail, take a break, try again has been my motto for awhile now. You don’t need to burn yourself out, ruin your social life, or go bankrupt that’s a choice. If I succeed then I reap the rewards of being on the winning side of capitalism and I believe in capitalism. If I fail then I guess I’m no better or worse off than I was before.

No, its not.

You're over romanticizing your understanding or perception of what a hustler or hustle culture whatever tf that is , is...theres a big difference between a hustler and someone scamming.

It isn't, it's a completely different type of grift that appeals to people's greed, ego and narcissism.

there's a lot to unpack here.

on the whole the hustle grind thing is an unsustainably way to live both in business and for a life, and a philosophy targeted at a specific sort of person who is going to idolize and ferociously consume it.

these people, by and large, are great targets because they're not actually clever or positioned enough to win at doing it, so like a diet designed to keep you hungry and fat there's a feedback loop of self-flagellation of wanting something, seeing no results, wanting it more, and so on.

and who wins when you can rile a bunch of people up to consume it? the people making the paid courses, and the people make the 'free' ones (which get monetized through youtube ads etc.). this is great because now those people can point at their lambos in their garage and the whole loop "proves" itself to "work".

this by itself is not a pyramid shape - it's really mostly producers and consumers in a typical arrangement. this could just as easily be artists and fans or parasocial streamer personalities or anything else.

there's a minor pyramidal component when you get into "I will teach you how to make courses so you can teach them to teach courses so we all get rich" and that grift starts to become sort of triangular because it explicitly wants to spread downward with recruitment over product and, like true pyramid schemes, you run out of new fools to rope in eventually down the line.

but. I don't know what the numbers look like, but that's a very small corner of overall entrepreneurship. it probably just happens to come up the most because those very vocal people are making their money by being incredibly vocal. that's their entire business model.

meanwhile, mr. local garbage collection empire or mrs. insurance business that serves the entire city also makes more money than you could possibly imagine, also works 10 hours a week and doesn't even know what youtube is. their source of revenue is providing a real product at scale and not recruiting 20-somes into ineffectively ~~running in circles~~ "working" 18 hours a day, keeping them juuuust tired enough to not realize that maybe spending $5k on an ebook package is a terrible deal.

I think it's a lot more complicated than a simple yes/no answer, but there absolutely is an element of pyramid scheme vibes to it.

It's not helped by the fakers who's entire business success is selling how to be successful. Almost all the books, courses, private groups, coaching, etc are aimed at people who think they can be the one that makes it, and that these people are their path to learning how to be successful. In reality 99% of them spend a small fortune on all this crap and end up failing.

I think what makes it worse is you get a lot of people that fool themselves into believing and trusting these people they've paid. They'll come to posts like this and defend them even with overwhelming evidence showing them its all a big scam.

Yes 🙌🏽

Entrepreneurship is good for society, but statistically bad for the entrepreneur.

The vast majority of small businesses fail. The risk is very great to the individual entrepreneur, kind of like playing the lottery. However small businesses drive roughly 50% of the US's economy, employe roughly half of the workers in the US, and have come up with the majority of innovations over the last century. So it is good for society if entrepreneurs keep taking risks, even if statistically speaking, the entrepreneur is far more likely to fail than succeed.

There have always been dudes who hustle on multiple small-ball enterprises at the same time and that's just the way they like to live.

Now they have Instagram accounts, that's all.

You reap what you sow--Even if you've failed you've reaped wisdom.

This is r/entreprenur, not r/hustle. So I'll just say it. Hustle culture is the worst thing that ever happened to the entrepreneur landscape. This subreddit is filled with wantrapreneurs, and investors who think asking "how to turn $1000 into $10,000 is entrepreneurship." While investing and grinding can (and often does) overlap with starting a new venture, the key defining feature that separates an entrepreneur, from an investor, and from some hustle culture bro with a side gig, is that being an entrepeneur is about HOW you make a living, NOT how much you make. I'll say that again, but with even more annoying emphasis.

Being an entrepreneur is about how you make a living, not how much you make.

As such, anyone who is in the "hustle and grind till I'm rich" mindset, is at best an entrepreneur with a toxic attitude, and at worst, is a gig worker deluding themselves into thinking that drop shipping on amazon makes them an "entrepreneur".

Like my dude. Drop shipping on amazon makes you a goddamn salesperson, with a really shitty relationship to your boss, no commission %, and no actual guarantee of profit, even if you make sales.

Do not confuse the bullshit sold by "get rich quick gurus" with entrepreneurship.

Entrepreneurs, as a class, are all about changing the world, or offering a product that reflects their personality or values. The two-bit hack creative selling goth jewelry in a podunk redneck farmers market? That's an entrepreneur. The guy doing a tech startup who thinks he can give the little guy a better shake and get some sweet sweet revenge on big pharma? That's an entrepreneur.

The guy who just wants to turn his spare time, or spare cash into more money? Not an entrepreneur. We call people who turn spare time into extra cash gig economy workers, and we call people who turn spare money into more money by investing in other people's businesses investors. If you are here, because some fast talking guru sold you on a seminar on how you too, can be fabulously rich if only you grind enough, (and buy his books, and subscribe to his podcast) then you might in fact be in the wrong subreddit. Because hustle culture, is not entrepreneurship. Period. End of story.

Ready for the heat

You're trying to be controversial, and present this as a new idea, but this is lukewarm, reheated garbage. The anti-hustle movement has been around for a while. It's been discussed in this sub ad infinitum.

Like, here's one from five years ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Entrepreneur/comments/9p8g63/so_im_done_with_all_this_hustle_lifestyle/

Anyway, as someone else pointed out, your post is all over the place.

"Everybody has time, Stop Watching Fucking Lost"

Gary Vaynerchuk is usually the poster child of the "hustle culture is bad" movement, and it kind of started with that iconic line from the mid-2000s. At the time, he would have people complain to him that they're not having the success they want to have, but then in the next breath he'd see them tweeting about the latest episode of Lost.

It's pretty simple. Time and again, studies on successful entrepreneurs have shown that an "internal locus of control" is a key factor in success. Basically put, a strong belief in your ability to control the outcomes of your life.

So, if you're not having the kind of success that you want in your entrepreneurship journey, look at yourself and your habits and work out what you need to change to succeed. Maybe you need to work harder, maybe you need to work smarter, maybe you need to take more time off so you don't burn out.

But, I can guarantee you that sitting around and blaming the toxicity of hustle culture for your failures is only going to lead to more failure.

And also, fuck anyone who posts on controversial topics like this to try and farm karma. Might as well ask about pineapple on pizza. Weak tea.

“Hustle culture” is a lie. There is no hustle culture. Whoever says that or sus scribes to that theory is likely just an anti work person trying to make an argument. If you want to be successful, let alone start a business you’ll have to work hard. If you are a w2 worker and want to make more money you’ll have to work more hours. Where is this hustle culture? Al I see is reality that you don’t become successful by doing the bare minimum

I’m not necessarily disagreeing with you that hustle culture can be deceptive or exploitative, but I think your reasoning is off.

Life, society, careers and even the idea of a pension are essentially also a pyramid scheme under your definition... If you just put in your time, pay your dues to the people above you, you’ll get what you want, eventually, through the work of those below you. No?

This is too generous of an interpretation though, the actual defining aspect of a pyramid scheme is that there is no real value creation (a monetized product or service), it’s fueled mainly by hype and speculation without profitability. Which, society, careers, etc obviously do create profit so they are not pyramid schemes in the full sense of the word.

But to your actual point, if I’m getting it right, yes all these things are somewhat exploitive of individuals, selling some distant promise. Which they are, as are all social systems designed by the more resourceful portion of the population to create stability (older, richer, smarter, etc). At the end of the day it’s about amassing enough perceived value by others in what you’re doing, and yes the threshold where that becomes a pyramid scheme is a blurred and disappearing line.

As with all movements there are the VERY FEW that have what it takes and are creative and driven and smart enough to be successful. Then there are those that sell the course and lifestyle to fail, assisted.

Those that made it move on to the next phase. Those that don’t decided there is more money, for them, in selling the path they took to fail.

Just omitting the fail part.

No. You can hustle on your own and you don't have to pay anyone.

Pyramid schemes pay old investors with funds from new investors. Think of Social Security as an example.

That is a criminal enterprise and is not remotely the same thing as a popular culture of self promoting hacks whose primary source of revenue is monetization from advertisements on social media.

It's not that deep.

Hustle Culture = some garbage pop culture trend that sneaked it's way into entrepreneurship.

Pyramid scheme = an illegal business model (I don't need to explain this)

Lol no. I didn't waste my time reading you post cause I'm fully aware it's probly a plug for your business

See nothing wrong with it because working hard moulds one’s character and does indeed lead towards success.

yes its the capitalist pyramid scheme

I work full time as an electrician. I make pretty good money, in fact my schedule is insane and i work a ton if overtime, way above the normal hours a 9-5 office worker would ever dream of. For that I make good money, but I don't love this.

My dream has always been opening my own company.

Have a registered business, built my website in my own time, learned Figma/Illustrator, created my own logo, letterheads, business cards, site. Spent money above and beyond to outfit my truck with ladder racks and sliding storage under a canopy. Carry insurance.

On my brief time off, do side jobs (insured, with permits). Analyze each how they went. Did I sell well? Did I charge enough? Did I finish in the amount of hours I thought I would? If not, keep iterating.

I also workout 6 days a week and read books for leisure and want to run a marathon. This is probably "hustle culture" and I feel like anyone who uses the words toxic hustle culture will never start a business on top of their 9-5 without significant outside help like inheritance, partner bankrolling them etc.

In short if you have a job and want to run a business, there is a period of time where you need to do and juggle both. If you think that's toxic hustle culture then.. don't?

Truth is .... you have to have intestinal fortitude. Which means you gotta want it. But you must be correct in your assessment of yourself and your abilities. I give you the example of a singer (or an actor or a ball player). There are many examples of people in these genres who have "made it". But unlike what you see and hear, it's more than just being discovered. You have to assess your talents and abilities to see if you have the basics of what it will take. Of all the success stories there are ten million failure stories. Being untalented, unprepared, and unwilling will always seal your doom. It ain't easy in the beginning and if you think the struggles aren't fun, then you are not in the right place.

In short, yes.

Other have said it better than I could, so I’ll just add one thing. The hustle culture does not tend to address WHAT you’re doing or WHY you’re doing it. Financial independence, sure. But why and how are you getting there?

What I’m saying is that it is treating entrepreneurship and business like a numbers game, like the top comment’s good example about “turning $1000 dollars into $10000” posts. Very rarely do you talk about adding VALUE, helping people with what you’re doing, selling, etc. It is truly just a cash grab and “how much do you make a month” mindset.

When I’m considering a business pursuit or a job, one of the questions I ask myself is “how do this bless my neighbor?” Are you providing good jobs/work for people? Beneficial services? Valuable products? This is the type of thing I wish I saw more chatter about in these kinds of groups.

Hustle culture: buy my book/course on how to become a millionaire. How I became a millionaire is selling a million of these books.

I think the most successful people that made it sacrificed more than the average person is willing to.

For example, after he graduated college, Mark Cuban rented a house that he shared with like 20 other young dudes and only had a towel to sleep on.

His whole life revolved around software sales. He even drove his then girlfriend away and chose working on his business rather than making more time for her. Right or wrong he chose to make those kinds of sacrifices.

I don’t think hustle culture should be shunned or blamed for anything. Because for most people it’s not even in their control.

They are pulled towards their goals similar to a kid who plays video games all day.

Both are spending a disproportionate amount of time and energy on something not because they have a gun to their head but because they are enjoying every moment of the game they are playing.

The most successful get there through sheer obsession. The problem is finding something that motivates you deep enough to give up the average employee life(nothing wrong with that, it’s just not for everybody).

That could be becoming super rich like whoever. That could be buying a sports team like Gary Vee, or amassing the most followers on YouTube like Mr. Beast, or putting humans on Mars like Elon.

They don’t hustle like maniacs because it’s cool and hip. It’s how they’re wired, it’s all they want to do, and because the vision/goal is that big it will require every ounce of themselves to make it real.

But they aren’t complaining about it because they love the process and signed up for it gladly.

Win lose or draw more output brings more experience and knowledge and maybe more reward but the true reward is in knowing what you want out of life, why you want it, and knowing yourself enough to determine if you’re willing to make the sacrifices needed to achieve your goals.

A part of being American is having your life centered around work and productivity. Unless you have "f*ck you" money, then there's really no escaping it. ~Everyone~ is living just to pay bills and money is at the forefront of everyone's mind. Not to mention your value as a man is largely placed on your financial status and success rather than your heart / character etc. Capitalism is a machine bigger than us all.

I got into entrepreneurship so I don't have to answer to a boss, and so I can eventually get less hands on, with the business.

It's a lot of work, but I'm not gonna kill myself doing it. If I have to hustle that hard, I'm not pricing adequately.

I am releasing a prototype of my application early next week and need people to try it out. Would love for anyone willing to help to respond and I'll send you the link when its up

It's about sending personalized gifts to your loved ones

Idk about you guys, but I hate to admit I'm lazy AF. I don't like hustling hard. I like to chill and do things I'm passionate about.

So when I'm busy AF, I'm busy because I need to clear things as minimally and as efficiently as possible - without compromising standards, yet delivering up to the best standards that I can.

I'm also not in business to impress people (not 100% LOL, let's be real). I just want to earn my living, living my life based on my own standards, and ironically even though I value freedom, I'm also mature enough to understand that the more I dive deeper, the more things I need to oversee and do with my own hands at least for the start.

Is this vanity or toxicity? Am I doing something incorrect?

Most people I know that buy into the hustle culture aren't actually really hustling. They are the ones that makes hustle culture seems so toxic. They spend more time talking about the hustling than actually doing the hustling and fabricating everything to make it seem like they are hustling.

IMO, anyone running approximately 24/7, sacrificing a social life, family, their health ( not eating right, sleeping enough, exercising) and is operating as a solo-preneur, you're most likely on a collision course with failure.

When you finally collide, it's gonna be a mess.