this post was submitted on 21 Jul 2025
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Science Memes

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[–] MIDItheKID@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

The cast of Vegitales lied to me!

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 139 points 1 week ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (38 children)

The whole fruit/vegetable controversy only comes because we're trying to use two different domains of terms interchangeably: botanical terms and culinary terms.

Tomatoes (and squash, and pumpkins (which, side note, are a type of squash), and cucumbers) are botanically fruits, but culinarily they're most commonly used as vegetables because they tend to be less sweet, particularly when raw. Mushrooms are botanically...well, I guess they're botanically "n/a", as they're not a part of the plantae kingdom, but whatever--they're typically considered botanical, so they're "botanically" fungi, but culinarily they're most commonly used as vegetables (or, interestingly, as meat replacements).

We get into the same linguistic confusion when we start throwing around "peanuts aren't nuts, they're legumes!"--botanically, yes, peanuts are legumes, but culinarily they're most commonly used as nuts. See also: "green beans" are botanically pods, not beans, but we use them culinarily as vegetables; and many "berries" are botanically something else but we use them culinarily as berries; meaning they're often left whole, mixed with other berries in the same dish, and go well with cream in cold summer desserts.

The whole thing is a misguided exercise in pedantry; "technically burritos aren't sandwiches, they're meat-sacks!" They're both, and we instinctively understand that trying to compare the two terms is silly because "sandwich" is a culinary term and "sack" is not.

~~Another funny part of this is that pedants are trying to say that tomatoes are (botanically) fruits and not vegetables, but the closest thing to a definition we have for "vegetable" botanically is "literally all plant life and maybe also some fungi," so tomatoes are clearly both fruit and vegetable botanically.~~ Plus, they're culinarily used as vegetables, but can also be used as fruits in some cakes, pies, sorbets, and so forth (and isn't ketchup just a tomato smoothie?), so tomatoes are clearly both fruit and vegetable in culinary terms as well.

edit: Someone who actually knows what they're talking about (an ecologist) has corrected my botanical definition of "vegetable." Actually, they're “edible parts of a plant which are not fruit.” Which means that tomatoes are explicitly excluded as vegetables, being botanically a fruit. I don't think that ruins my overall point in any way, though.

[–] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (1 children)

The crucial difference is that the culinary classifications have no scientific basis.

the closest thing to a definition ~~we~~ "we" have for ~~“vegetable”~~ vegetable botanically

Who is "we"? People (ITT) who study botany have functional, scientific definitions.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

The culinary classifications have no scientific basis, but they do have an anthropological basis. They're not completely meaningless.

Who is "we"?

I was basing that on a misunderstanding: I thought that the word "vegetation" being an archaic term meant that it was no longer used, but yeah, I was incorrect there. I appreciate the correction.

[–] jwiggler@sh.itjust.works 20 points 1 week ago (4 children)

good post, sounds like a copypasta

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 30 points 1 week ago

Alas, it's all me. I...tend to be a bit verbose.

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[–] kingofthezyx@lemmy.zip 19 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (4 children)

Great post, with one caveat

the closest thing to a definition we have for "vegetable" botanically is "literally all plant life and maybe also some fungi,"

I got my degree in Ecology and Evolution, and we always used a similar working definition but it was "edible parts of a plant which are not fruit." So basically botanically, stems, roots, leaves, flowers, and all subvarieties of those are vegetables. Fruits are fruits. Fungi are fungi.

[–] ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 points 6 days ago

Awesome, thank you for the correction. I appreciate your expert review!

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[–] TheGiantKorean@lemmy.world 82 points 1 week ago
[–] potoo22@programming.dev 53 points 1 week ago

The true misconception is that there are scientific definitions and culinary definitions. No the culinary definitions don't fit their scientific category. They're not intended to.

[–] Babalugats@feddit.uk 46 points 1 week ago (4 children)

Strawberries, blackberries, mulberries, and raspberries are not berries.

Bananas, aubergine (eggplants), oranges and grapes are berries.

Dangleberries aren't real berries either.

[–] smeg@feddit.uk 67 points 1 week ago (3 children)
[–] 9point6@lemmy.world 19 points 1 week ago (1 children)

I have the last pane spoken with an old man voice living in my head rent free for some reason

It's alarming the rate at which it just pops up

[–] tetris11@lemmy.ml 14 points 1 week ago (1 children)

maybe start demanding rent from the old man living in your head

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[–] Jtotheb@lemmy.world 39 points 1 week ago (3 children)

They’re (mushrooms) also constantly listed on American menus as a “protein” option despite a dire lack of the stuff

[–] Zerush@lemmy.ml 1 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

I've anyway severe doubts that most American food really is food

[–] Ephera@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 week ago (6 children)

Hmm, is it really that little? The stats look devastating, like e.g. 3 grams per 100 grams, but mushrooms also consist out of 90+ grams of water.

For example, the button mushroom has:
100 g total - 91.8 g water - 1.7 g fiber = 6.5g nutrients
2.89 g protein / 6.5 g nutrients = 44.4% protein

Comparing that to e.g. canned black beans:
100 g total - 70.8 g water - 6.69 g fiber = 22.51 g nutrients
6.91 g protein / 22.51 g nutrients = 30.9% protein

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[–] BeNotAfraid@lemmy.world 34 points 1 week ago (1 children)

That's because Vegetable is not a Botanical Term. It is a culinary term. So, Tomatoes are both fruit and vegetable.

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 25 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (5 children)

This.

All fruits are vegetables. Not all vegetables are fruit.

The definition of a vegetable is just any edible part of a plant. While a fruit is specifically the seed-bearing ovary of a flowering plant.

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[–] boydster@sh.itjust.works 31 points 1 week ago

"Fruiting bodies," even

[–] the_artic_one@programming.dev 26 points 1 week ago (2 children)

Fungi only got its own kingdom in 1969, before that they were a phylum in Plantae. There are tons of people still around who learned "mushrooms are plants" in school, so it's not surprising downstream vocabulary hasn't caught up.

[–] Unbecredible@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Idk that food vernacular is necessarily downstream of rigorous taxonomies at all lol.

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[–] neatobuilds@lemmy.today 23 points 1 week ago (3 children)

I don't think I've ever considered a mushroom a vegetable, they're just mushrooms

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[–] jaupsinluggies@feddit.uk 21 points 1 week ago (3 children)

Yeah but a mushroom's such a fungi to be with.

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[–] ICastFist@programming.dev 15 points 1 week ago

Let's not forget that apples, strawberries and cashews are pseudofruits, just like the produce of my labor!

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