Photography

Hello Coca-Cola, can you DM me your recipe and what machines you use? No?!... Dear Reddit, Coca-Cola corporation is sexist!

I grew cannabis for 2 decades, all my friends that I trained and employed thanked me by becoming the competition and eventually drove me out of the industry. Learned a very important lesson on helping others into your professional field. Like not to do it.

There was a post about it a while ago.

I suggest maybe go to galleries, exhibit openings and make personal connections. All the while noticing all the little bits & bobs about this sector literally anywhere. Maybe a chat over a drink works better.

But these people have climbed the greasy pole on their own so I doubt they’re very willing to basically help out a competitor who is going to come and get a slice of the same pie.

Also, some techniques they use are probably almost unconscious- they don’t even notice they’re doing something.

Maybe I’m in a minority here, but I think gatekeeping is totally fair. It’s not my responsibility to help people arrive at conclusions/realisations when I’ve had to work hard to get somewhere.

I do a lot of location portrait work and often get DMs from photographers asking where I took certain photos. I just ignore the messages. I do lots of research and spend time and effort to make sure that I get the results I want!

I don't mean to be mean but...

So one of my strategies were writing pm‘s to concert photographers on instagram with the question if they could be so kind and spill the tea about experiences in the business.

Guess what? The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored.

That's not gatekeeping, it's simply not being interested in helping someone they don't know with nothing in it for them.

You're expecting them to take time and put effort into hand-crafting replies to give you information with nothing in return.

They're not saying you can't be an event photographer, they're not stopping you from doing anything, they're just too busy living their own lives to want to take the time to help you.

Your best bet is to ask on forums like this one where people can elect to provide advice if they want to, or to search up the answer (it's been asked often enough!). Most people posting on social media like Instagram don't tend to have in depth conversations about anything, in my experience, unless they stand to gain from it.

Ive had other photographers trash talk me in front of my modells during TFP shoots, only to see them post significantly worse pictures then the ones I took after the fact. So its not even exclusive to "professionals".

I hear you and I agree that there can be a lot of gatekeeping behaviour, across photography sectors.

It likely stems from a scarcity mindset, where we think helping someone out directly will hinder our own success. There’s not enough pie!

I’m a big believer in the opposite: that if we all support each other and generate a collective buzz, people start to value us more and there is even more work to go around. There’s pie for everyone!

Anyway, I’ve got experience with concert photography and will be happy to share.

Feel free to DM me!

The answers were vague and short or you would get ignored. Further it would stop at telling the simple thing of which lens they used.

I mean, yes there are gatekeepers, but from my experience this is less about gatekeeping and more about availability/motivation to answer questions. I often get PMs asking for feedback, advice, etc, and I try my best to be helpful, but like most people I have a lot on my plate and it takes actual effort to answer in a constructive and helpful way. You're asking people to give you their time which has value for nothing in return. Like you don't want to give your time for free shooting concerts, it's very feasible that these photographers also don't want to give their time and effort for free.

Succesfull photographers won‘t have a conversation about their experiences. Hence their the biggest gatekeepers in my opinion!!

I see it more as a cost vs benefit for them. What are they getting out of the conversation? Is it even a conversation, or shooting a bunch of questions at them? At that point, you're asking someone to mentor or teach you without any value for them in return.

My advice? Find someone who is open to taking on an assistant or mentee. Learn from them while also helping them. There's value in that for both of you. Just hitting someone up in their PMs with a bunch of questions is not really respectful of their time and the time it took them to acquire the knowledge you're asking them to just feed you.

Concert photography is probably the worst sector if you want to get paid. Here in Belgium it's almost all voluntary work. Even people I know from organisations like 'Concert Photographers United' and 'Dansende Beren' don't get paid.

There are exceptions like if the band pays you to tour with them. A newspaper pays you to shoot a concert. Or become a paid in-house photographer for a concert hall. Selling prints is probably your best bet. They might not be gatekeeping, they might not get paid themselves.

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Of course they're gatekeeping, its their income!

There are plenty of resources out there explaining how to get into gig photography.

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Bear in mind a lot of people who scratch a living at it haven't been doing it for a single year, but many many many years, so why are you expecting them to give up their hard earned knowledge to some random stranger from the internet? Talk about delusional and self important.

If you’ve shot for free for a while, 1/ you’re the « shoot for free » photographer and frankly you’re just bad for the whole business because you undercut everyone. and 2/ you’re now known as the « shoot for free photographer », good luck trying to get hired for money by people who got you for free or heard from colleagues/acquaintances you work for no money.

Good luck though, everyone deserves a chance, but don’t count on others and do your own thing, it’s also 10 times more rewarding…

I helped out a bunch of other photographers since I always also got help from other but turns out most of them were trying to exploit in some way. I am not doing paid work and still lost people due to this.

But I still try to help others but I am more cautious because of my experiences and that’s why I understand these photographers you mentioned

Another point is that concerts still have problems from corona and still are not paid as good as before, I heard of some cancellations because of to less preorders, and that’s maybe also a reason why you are not getting booked as often because they just don’t have money to spare. Also I don’t know your portfolio, maybe your pictures are not there yet but idk.

Good luck anyways.

Also from Germany btw

Yeah this is not gatekeeping.

This is people who you do not know who you have never meet not wanting to take the time to reply to a random stranger online messaging them. I am sure if their work is good they probably have lots of messages asking to use their photos for free, or for them to do free shoots for smaller bands etc.. that they also ignore or give short replies to.

There is zero benefit for them to and they are not obligated to take time out of their day to give free advice or lessons to random people.

It would be different if this was part of a class, educational series, or you were talking to them live specifically about concert photography and they refused to share details.

Concert photography isn’t a lucrative field or interesting filed, other than you get to see some artists for free. There is nothing to it other than the lens you use or settings. What are you expecting from these people? I’d love to see the questions you asked?? It’s just find someone who is willing to pay you and ask to shoot the event. There is nothing more to it.

Concerts don't pay, and when they barely do - there's a horde of desperate photogs willing to fight tooth and nail for those gigs for reasons I'll never understand...

OP, your honest and best bet is boudoir since you have 0 creep factor when it would come to working with other women in their undies, and this PAYS. Then you can just attend concerts for fun and laugh at those desperate shmucks working them.

Let me get this straight:

• First you undercut your "colleagues" by doing 10 events for free
• then you proceeded to request know-how (that some times takes years to acquire) without offering anything in return
• then you rage...

Doesn't seem the healthy way to go.

If from the start you'd have befriended 1 or 2, and offered assistantship (this could be even paid!) So you could shadow them and learn on the go, and join a local group (there's always at least one), maybe you've gotten somewhere.

All I read is that you feel entitled to get critical info from your future competition.

Yeah... Pass.

There might be a retired concert photographer out there who could be your mentor. Sounds like a long shot but you never know how the stars could align to your favour.

Shortly after I got serious with my hobby as a landscape photographer, I happened to buy some used gear from someone who turned out to be a retired arts professor and professional photographer. He was passionate about teaching and didn't mind taking me under his wings. We met for coffee and donuts over several months. He was generous in sharing tips and tricks of the trade, including where to find the best but obscure scenic spots in our part of the country.

I honestly think you're playing too much into the victim mentality.

This is my advice:

What you described happens in just about every field and will continue to happen. I've experienced many similar things. When people said to me in a drunken rave one night, "Yeah man, just give me a call I'll set you up with all the best contacts in that place / country." Yet when I call them and leave a message they never call back etc. It happens and it's almost to be expected.

You know what I did? I just went and did it anyway – in my own way. I went to those places and countries and I made my own luck. It worked out way better than I could have imagined because I found my own path.

The other thing is if your concert photographs are great you are eventually going to get the paid work. If your photos are not great yet, then you won't get the paid work.

It means you have to keep working on your skills and craft until your work is really great. Unless you are exceptionally skilled, it's going to take you way more than a year to be really great at anything in photography.

It took me many years of work and making many mistakes to get paid to do theatre and event photography.

Getting paid for concert photography is an incredibly small niche area of photography – and it seems almost every new photographer wants to do it.

Remember – no one out there in the photography world owes you anything.

Yes, people can choose to freely share their advice and experience – just like I am doing now.

Please make a blog and share your journey so others can follow in your footsteps, not make the same mistakes, can learn all the shortcuts and save time (and heartache!) by not having to work it all out for themselves!

Sounds like you’re trying to short cut years of networking, experience, hard work and being put off a lot of times and have that bundled into an Instagram DM from a stranger. Remember that a well paid photographer is 80% marketing and networking

Yeah, sorry, you have to grind like they did, like we all did. You just have to.

While a customer of mine was renting equipment from me for his small gigs, he was sending postcards to travel magazines. When one of their go-to photographers didn't pick up the phone, he got the call, and now he's working a lot. That's how it works.

A buddy of mine has been shooting California beach lifestyle for years, and still hasn't gotten a call, as far as I can tell from his portfolio.

There are no empty seats. You have to stand until someone gets up.

While you're up there, build your portfolio, build your industry relationships, and spam everyone who does the thing you like, creatively, respectfully, and consistently. Be ready for that call. And have a backup plan in case this doesn't work out. You do seem to have some hustle. Most people don't, and people do notice and remember.

I would never use Instagram for any sort of serious question or conversation.

Do the legwork to at least get their actual emails and contact directly with a personal message/letter that shows you know something about them, are serious, and are asking a genuine question without any sort of expectation that they owe you anything.

Instagram is essentially a spam generator.

Contact the opening bands for asking for a press pass from them instead of the headliners, who probably had 100 photographers reaching out to them.

Also, try reaching out to the record labels themselves.

I’m in your same situation but have had some luck recently when a band I shot in the past asked me to be the photographer for their label’s two day festival. It was good publicity and networking.

Try to link up with a local newspaper or blog and take pictures on their behalf or start your own site.

I worked with a guy who toured with a bunch of bands back in the late 90s/ early 2000s. To hear him tell it, when Napster came about and the music industry had to reorganize itself, the money/demand for anything outside just the music dried up. That was kinda the last hayday for that sort of gig, at least full time.

Now it seems to be more about connections. For example, the few concert gigs I've done over the years came from referrals from corporate events/headshots. Granted, the people I work for never explicitly marketed for concert photography, so take that as you will.

I'd say it comes down to doing your craft well, getting in front of the right people through connections, and marketing yourself well enough that you get your work seen by the people you want to hire you. Music photography is kind of like fashion in the sense that a lot of people want and do that job but only a handful make a living doing explicitly just that one thing.

Yes and no but most of the information is out there for you to find, learn, and practice. You’re going about it wrong and looking for handouts. Why would anyone just want to give you information? What did you offer those people you’re seeking out to give you something?

You worked free, you took bread out of their mouths nd you want them to train you. I think you have a problem understanding what business is about, I don't want to advertise for other photographers on my website, I sure as hell am not going to teach them how to market, and become my competition.

I also wouldn't expect them to hand over all their trade secrets.

https://centurionphotographer.co.za

Not a pro, so please don't come after me. My guess is that they get tons of requests for advice/help from people trying to go pro, ranging from absolute beginners with zero experience who think photography is just pushing a button, to actual professionals trying to get into other branches.

They probably worked hard too, to get to where they are now and don't own any random stranger on the internet their professional time or advice.

The fact that they even replied to you, is a courtesy.

Agree

It's not quite clear if this is ranting or question. Please make it little more clear about it.

If it is question, what is your main focus here? Getting income through concert photography? Getting income through any photography? Getting access to bigger concert despite no income? The know-how of how to be a good concert photographer? How to make other photographer answer you in more personal level? Would be great if you can rephrase the question so it can be a bit more clear.

It's reddit here. If you rant, you will hear the rant back.

It's hard to see the whole picture from your description but this is the way I see:

10 concert is not much. Did you make portfolio as a concert photographer and is it good quality and unique enough to the level that the host would specifically hire you for that specific look?

Don't ask what lens other pro use. They usually use whatever that gets the job done. Focusing on gear gives the amateur vibe and they will take you as a beginner. You should know your tool by heart and you should know what parameters of lens make what features. On top of it, most of characteristics are added in post process. Also, you can always rent lenses for few days from camera shops if you are curious of some lens.

Time is money. I don't think it's weird that pro photographers gave half baked answers.

If your route is blocked, find a different way, a different niche, a different category, a different channel - but the biggest block I can see is your mindset.

I had a photography business for just shy of 2 decades. I would often get other photographers that wanted to get into the business contact me and ask about the whole process.

I’d charge them a consultation fee - and this would keep the drive bys at bay. I had probably 4-5 consults like this and 2-3 of them went on to be successful. The market I live in is really big, so competition is. It so much an issue. The niche they wanted to get into was different than what I did (portraiture, but they wanted to do baby and mini shoots and that is not my thing at all).

Even so, I know of a few larger corporations CEOs that will give you a few hours of their time if you pay.

Seems very fair.

However, business is business and people are busy, out there hustling. No one is entitled to anything and no one owes anyone else anything.

I’ve changed as now I’m doing journalism and not paid photo shoots anymore, so I don’t have the worry about training a competitor, so I do tend to help out more pro bono than I used to.

The only thing I never understood was when photographers got all secretive about what gear they use, EXIF data and their post processing workflow.

The “secret sauce “ is not the gear or the plug in you use. The key is cultivating the eye to see what needs to be captured, getting the light how it needs to be.

Oh, and I’d say that about 80% of photographers think they are better than everyone else or are a-holes anyone - so o don’t think that this situation the OP is in is gatekeeping, it’s just probably people being busy, personalities.

You’re asking the quintessential request that nobody wants to answer, esp if they’ve worked really hard to navigate to where they’re at:

“give me the shortcut on how to get where you are”

You’ve only been shooting a year. Start networking.

There are 3 kinds of concert photographers.

1 working photographers, often for the news, sometimes for other clients. People who shoot a 10 different things this week and one happens to be the concert. They’ve proven themselves around town and everyone understands they are there to work and deliver just like they did yesterday. The venue knows they will behave, and that the pics will be published exactly where they expect. They might like the band but showed up for the paycheck.

2 people who want to shoot concerts, they’ll work for free because they want to see the show. They may or may not be good, they may or may not understand how to act at the show, they may do nothing with the photos. There are hundreds of these people who want in to every show.

3 serious concert photographers. There are extremely few of these. They’ve proven themselves over and over and have built strong relationships with certain bands and venues. Yes, these are gatekeepers. They know that #2 doesn’t belong there and makes their job harder.

I’m a #1, had a manager once who was a #3. He was deadly serious about all of it. He’d done hundreds and hundreds of shows. Toured with major bands. If you wanted to shoot your favorite band he would make you earn it by flawlessly shooting a dozen concerts of bands you hated.

Here’s your advice. The photos are the easy part. Someone else decides what is happening, exactly where you are standing and what the lighting is. You learn through practice how to make the most of that.

Bootleg a hundred shows. Build your portfolio. Shoot whatever crappy little bands and venues you can for a couple years. Get to where you always make the best of the situation. Get to where every security guard and stagehand in town know you and knows you are there to do a job that you take seriously. Go out and do a lot of other work.

Understand the business. What it costs the band for you to be there. Who needs photos and why. Have an end use for the pics. The local garage band might want a free photo but taylor swift doesn’t. The major festival doesn’t. They will let you in because you are on assignment from AP or Le Monde or Reuter’s.

Don’t be a fan. You aren’t there for selfies and autographs. Do everything exactly the same no matter who is performing.