this post was submitted on 25 Oct 2025
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Lemmy

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Everything about Lemmy; bugs, gripes, praises, and advocacy.

For discussion about the lemmy.ml instance, go to !meta@lemmy.ml.

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I've been trying Lemmy for a little while and wasn't sure how to feel about it.

Today, I wanted to start blocking the most high-censorship instances until I could find a fully zero-censorship instance and simply block all the ones with censorship. Filter bots, not people.

When I looked into it further, I found out there are no zero-censorship instances, because Lemmy relies on a broken "federation" system where each instance is supposed to be able to fetch posts from other instances, but it's never been finished to reach a fully working state. Lemmy's official docs say you can't even do federation over Tor at all. This means it uses DNS, so it won't actually allow Lemmy instances to fetch posts from each other freely, it just gets blocked instantly and easily, every time the authorities feel like blocking anything.

So you can only ever have the "average joe lemmy" and "average joe reddit" with everything approved by the authorities, and then "tor copies of lemmy" and "tor copies of reddit" where you have free speech but you can only reach other nerds.

People seem to think Lemmy is different because this weird censorship fetish is extremely popular and most of you are happy to see bans happen to certain people, not just bots, so a small Lemmy that censors certain people feels fundamentally different from a big reddit that censors more people. But it's the exact same thing, it's reddit.

When reddit was smaller, you could say basically anything you wanted there, they just wouldn't let it reach the main audience. Then it got too big, and any tiny part of the audience you could reach would be too big, so they won't let you talk at all.

Lemmy is now the small part of reddit where you can say whatever you want, separated from the main audience, until too much growth happens and you have to move again.

It's not actually a solution to reddit. It's not designed to be different, it's designed to match the past today and then match reddit's present tomorrow, while being part of a system that's about the same in past, present, and future.

Last year, this year, and next year, you're posting somewhere it won't be seen by many people, and the system that charges people for ambulance rides is getting another year of ambulance ride revenue, facing no organized resistance. There's no difference here.

Lemmy urgently needs federation between onion service instances and DNS addresses in order to actually do what most users seem to wish it would do: allow discussion outside what the corporate authorities allow, while outgrowing reddit & helping undo the damage social media has done to human communication.

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[–] howrar@lemmy.ca 3 points 11 hours ago

Lemmy is designed to fail the same way as reddit when reaching the same size

I didn't ask you about this. Why waste time telling me about it?

[–] Skavau@piefed.social 17 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (30 children)

Lemmy urgently needs federation between onion service instances and DNS addresses in order to actually do what most users seem to wish it would do: allow discussion outside what the corporate authorities allow, while outgrowing reddit & helping undo the damage social media has done to human communication.

"allow discussion outside what the corporate authorities allow" apparently meaning "Allow CSAM"

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[–] sam@fed.eitilt.life 17 points 1 day ago (1 children)

The no-censorship crowd is funny. "I wanted to block everyone whose admins block someone, in order to find the people whose admins don't block anyone, so I could talk to the few people I hadn't blocked because they don't block people."

(And that's ignoring the traditional entitlement in that people somewhere else deciding not to listen to you somehow means you're censored locally.)

Hypocracy -- and conspiracy-level rambling -- aside, there's actually an interesting kernel of commentary here on how we talk about joining and administering Fedi. On the one hand, we say that newcomers shouldn't worry about which instance to start out on, because every one connects to every other, but on the other we celebrate how the instanced architecture allows admins control over which other instances to connect to. And then you have the deeper issue of the vast majority of the software assuming DNS, so even if admins do want to connect to Tor instances, they can't feasably do so without a fair bit of host-system tweaking. Yeah, those mixed messages are just the emergent result of which layer of abstraction we're talking about in any given conversation, but it would be nice if we could find language that doesn't take literally the opposite tack on each successive layer.

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[–] digdilem@lemmy.ml 23 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (4 children)

I don't want Lemmy to be zero censorship.

In every case I've known, anywhere claiming "zero censorship" either adopts it sooner or later, or disappears - and in every one of those cases, it was a godawful place to be 100% of the time. IME, those who do say they want this tend to be either edgy teenagers, crackpot conspiracy theorists or psychopaths.

Sure, you can say "well, zero censorship except bots" - well that's censorship, isn't it? And given no anti-bot tactic is reliable, you'll be blocking humans. Or you can say, "zero censorship except CSAM, or extreme pornography, or anti-terrorist" and you're either applying societal laws or your own morality on others. You can't use "no censor" and "except" in a sentence without contradiction.

If you want zero censorship, I don't think Lemmy is for you. I don't think the fediverse is for you. But if you disagree, then run your own instance and put it on an onion address, please stop trying to rant at us for not sharing your views.

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[–] Pfeffy@lemmy.world -4 points 14 hours ago

It's failed like Reddit already and is tiny. The sheer amount of botspam, fake accounts, spam instances, etc makes Reddit look curated.

[–] greedytacothief@lemmy.dbzer0.com 29 points 1 day ago (68 children)

My problem with reddit was not censorship, and I can't think of why I would want to visit a forum with absolutely no censorship. I want "right" or "good" censorship or however that ends up relating to my values. Lemmy was not designed to address your problems with censorship, but it definitely addresses some problems of censorship.

[–] pineapple@lemmy.ml 10 points 1 day ago

Same here. I joined lemmy for privacy, the federation that allows smaller communities with very specific interests and moderation and an escape from the capitalist reddit that doesn't care about it's users at all.

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[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I agreed with the title, but then downvoted immediately upon reading your post.

Censorship is not Reddit's problem. It’s enshittification.

Reddit didn’t fail because Spez has some niche political opinions he pushes and you aren’t allowed to say, it failed because its algorithm/UI is structured to farm users and turn to shit.


Lemmy has major problems and power tripping mods, but its existential issue (IMO) is collapse from spam, trolls, attention algorithms, commercialization, and so on.

But federation is a good first step to avoiding the enshittification traps, like the original internet did until Google/Facebook got such a grip on it.

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