this post was submitted on 10 Aug 2023
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No Stupid Questions

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I see this everywhere. Hidden or transparent monochrome American black flags on large trucks or 4-Runners. Usually speeding or driving aggressively on the highway.

I found this:

The black and white American flag originated during the American Civil War between 1861 and 1865. It was created as an opposing symbol to the white flag, which symbolizes surrender. Confederate army soldiers flew the black flag to demonstrate they would not give in or surrender to the enemy. It showed that they would rather be killed than taken in as prisoner.

And this:

Sometimes soldiers show respect for their country by using the black version on their vehicles

My question is for the people doing this. What message are you trying to send? Are you openly telling your coworkers and neighbors that you are still supporting the South in a war that ended long ago? Are you low key showing your support for Trump? Are you ex military showing support for your country? I ask because at least for me, the message is unclear.

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[–] jg1i@lemmy.world 67 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I've always assumed this was a variation of the pro police brutality flag that Republicans like. I don't think I've met any non-Republicans with these flag designs.

[–] blanketswithsmallpox@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They're flags where you want to say you're Republican but don't want to be blue lives matter is how I know it colloquially in practice.

Not quite as bad as the 'Stars and Bars', but I've only seen one type of person wear it. And they're usually diehard exmilitary Republicans that like to shit on Democrats but play plausible deniability when you call them out on it lol.

Edit: Most legit and cool military people I know just use their branch or company symbols. Army/Marine Globe/actual company patch etc.

[–] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 42 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (2 children)

Honestly it runs the gambit. I first was seeing them on cop-related stuff in the 90's, when everyone wanted to wear black things and look "tacticool." (go to the 5.11 website if you're not familiar) I suppose there's a segment of the population going for "patriotic, yet edgy," that gets this stuff. As I get older I tend to view these people as looking for someone to fight, but only if they think they can win.

These people usually live in their own conservative bubble, and the behavior is accepted or rewarded. They usually leave the bubble in groups, so they can reinforce their views with each other when confronted or avoided. But when mixing with general society, they tend to mellow out. Leaving an echo chambers does that.

There are definitely people using it as a dog whistle. Those people will double down, not mellow out. These are your idiots attacking the capital. Fuck those guys.

[–] PoetSII@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Fwiw the term is 'runs the gamut'

Gamut - the complete range or scope of something. "the whole gamut of human emotion"

[–] Jakeuphigh@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

I agree with your perspective. FYI - something with many varieties "runs the gamut." A gambit is a ploy or strategy, a gamut is a spectrum of values.

[–] aseriesoftubes@lemmy.world 40 points 1 year ago (7 children)

You’re way overthinking it, my friend. The meaning of it is “‘Murica, fuck yeah!” They want everyone to know what a tough, Trump-loving big boy they are.

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[–] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 32 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Any version of the flag has basically become a racist, nationalist dog whistle. The thin blue line, black and white, upsidedown/backwards ones are the even more extreme folks typically. There's a slim chance someone with a regular American flag isn't a nationalist twat.

[–] Billy_Gnosis@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

That's what pisses me off about the Gadsden flag.

The flag has been described as the "most popular symbol of the American revolution". Its design proclaims an assertive warning of vigilance and willingness to act in defense against coercion. This has led it to be associated with the ideas of individualism and liberty.

These are some of the ideals that I favor and stand behind. But now the right wing loonies have corrupted it and use it for their own purposes.

[–] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

Ya, that one always cracks me up because it's the folks bootlicking the police state and our corporate overlords having it displayed.

[–] brygphilomena@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Upside down flag means distress, need to be saved or rescued. Co-opted by idiots saying the nation as a whole is in trouble.

Backwards is actually a normal, proper way to display it if it's on someone's right shoulder or the right side of a vehicle. It's as it would be were it blowing in the wind as the car or person moves forward.

But of course, so few people that put the flag on anything know even the basics of the flag code. Any change to it is disrespectful, such as the blue line. Making clothes out of it is disrespectful. Hell, I had a neighbor who painted it on the bed of his vehicle trailer. He was literally driving and parking vehicles on top of the flag.

[–] Intralexical@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There’s a slim chance someone with a regular American flag isn’t a nationalist twat.

Y'all should really reclaim that. It's a good flag, and it's supposed to mean some things that are actually quite nice.

[–] Astroturfed@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It's already too late at this point. Can't happen anytime soon. Hell, I'm a approaching middle age white guy living in the south, I cant do a buzzcut without getting assuming looks. Wearing or sporting an American flag gets all the wrong kind of attention. I really don't want to deal with it. Frightening minorities and getting thumbs up/nods from racists isn't really my thing.

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[–] src@lemmy.ml 30 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe they just like the American flag. There doesn't always have to be a hidden meaning behind it.

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[–] Fondots@lemmy.world 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

AFAIK, the monochrome flag comes from military uniforms, a lot of them have adopted flag patches in monochrome tans and greens to better match the camo of their uniforms. Police have been adopting more "tactical" military style uniforms in black, so black monochrome flags match that color scheme.

You may also notice that some of them have the flag backwards with the stars on the right, that's another styling cue from the military. The flag patches on uniform shoulders are in that orientation, it's mean to evoke the image of the flag streaming behind them as they walk.

As far as why civilians display these symbols, there's probably a few reasons, but it's probably pretty safe to say that most of them would identify themselves as being patriotic to some extent or another and want to show support for the police and/or military or at least think that the tactical look is cool.

The black version probably caught on mostly because it looks cool and kind of works with whatever color gear or vehicle you want to slap it on, tans and greens and such don't necessarily go with everything quite so well.

You'll often see these black flags with a single colored stripe, this originates from the nickname for the police "the thin blue line" (blue because police in the US traditionally usually had blue uniforms) though pretty much every vaguely public-safety/military/law enforcement has their own colored line these days- red for fire, green for military, forest green for park rangers, yellow for tow truck drivers etc.

You could probably write a book about what these lines are meant to represent, how they're interpreted by different groups, etc. Often they're meant to represent something like "the line between order and chaos"

Thanks to the blue lives matter response to the black lives matter movement, this sort of imagery has also become very associated with conservative politics

You may occasionally see the flag being flown upside-down. This originated as a distress signal, and is basically people saying that they think the nation is trouble.

I've tried to keep this mostly very matter-of-fact and not go off on my personal thought on these types of symbols and the people that display them, and kept it to just where these symbols come from. I'm going to leave my personal opinions with just a simple statement that these symbols tend to be used disproportionatly by the right wing, and I do not particularly like the symbols, what they represent, and how they are used.

[–] Tarrasque@lemmy.world 22 points 1 year ago

In my experience, it's mostly a vet/military thing. Rednecks fly the actual confederate battle flag. It could be cop, but they typically fly the thin blue line flag. Subdued/monochrome flags are pretty popular accesories in military and military adjacent communities. If you check out "Grunt Style" you'll probably see dozens. And enlisted (grunts in particular) tend to skew less educated and are more entrenched in toxic ideals of masculinity, so it's no surprise to see them acting like fools on the road.

[–] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 21 points 1 year ago

Patriotic edge-lord. I'm not sure what they believe or stand for, but they are edgy about it.

[–] FlexibleToast@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

They think having flag themed everything is patriotic while having never actually read the flag code to know that it isn't.

[–] edgarallenpwn@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

It has to match their Punisher sticker duh

[–] Qkall@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

weird trump shit brother. i've noticed much of those flags are also the back the blue shit flags too (blue lives matter tomfoolery)

[–] Hazdaz@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Someone is reading WAY the fuck too much into this.

It's just a flag.

The vast, vast, vast majority of people putting on these tacky flags onto their cars are doing it because they might think it looks cool.

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[–] matthew@lemmy.woodward.tech 13 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I have something like this on my Prius. Its just a black flag that doesn't take up the whole back panel.

It's just a flag. It has absolutely nothing to do with the civil war and doesnt have any hidden meaning. I didnt want a color flag because it would stand out.

I very much dislike trump, and in no way does the American flag represent him in my interpretation of it. For me, the flag just represents the sacrafice made by military members and the ability of the people to make meaningful changes to our country.

Im also understanding that the flag does not represent that to many people, and does represent an insitution of racism. I just hope those people understand that it doesn't mean that to me.

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[–] PoetSII@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

It means they're a nationalist twat. Simple question, not worth this much thought.

[–] magnetosphere@kbin.social 11 points 1 year ago

Confederate army soldiers flew the black flag to demonstrate they would not give in or surrender to the enemy. It showed that they would rather be killed than taken in as prisoner.

Fine. Pass the ammo.

[–] Bye@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I would also like to know. I drive a 4runner and there is a TON of aftermarket parts that have that black flag on them. Rear window stickers, bumpers, decals, cargo organizers, etc. what’s the deal?

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[–] bcoffy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I actually have one of these on the emergency kit my brother gave me for a car, he put it together in a like military style bag to keep in my trunk and it has a patch on it like that. It’s just a monochromatic version of the American flag, anyone I’ve known who has something like that doesn’t intend anything past that. Like others referenced, modern fatigues and gear in the US Military feature a similar monochromatic flag to that (usually black and the primary color of the uniform, like desert tan or olive drab) to save cost and make it blend in with the uniform better, so I think that popularized that to some degree in culture.

[–] zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

They are a fascist. source: all of my neighbors

[–] kent_eh@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

It's just another example of American performative patriotism.

It has always been a thing (I remember seeing houses with multiple flags back when I visited the US in the late '70s)

It has always seemed very strange. Outside of specific national holidays, you seldom see such blatant literal flag waving in most other countries I've visited.

[–] cyborganism@lemmy.ca 6 points 1 year ago

I thought it was the flag of Bretagne in France.

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