this post was submitted on 08 Jan 2026
926 points (99.5% liked)

Science Memes

18300 readers
1969 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 3 years ago
MODERATORS
 
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] Silic0n_Alph4@lemmy.world 195 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

Infinite energy for all is cancelled.

Infinite wealth for the shareholders will go ahead instead.

[–] N0t_5ure@lemmy.world 87 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

“If," ["the management consultant"] said tersely, “we could for a moment move on to the subject of fiscal policy. . .” “Fiscal policy!" whooped Ford Prefect. “Fiscal policy!" The management consultant gave him a look that only a lungfish could have copied. “Fiscal policy. . .” he repeated, “that is what I said.” “How can you have money,” demanded Ford, “if none of you actually produces anything? It doesn't grow on trees you know.” “If you would allow me to continue.. .” Ford nodded dejectedly. “Thank you. Since we decided a few weeks ago to adopt the leaf as legal tender, we have, of course, all become immensely rich.” Ford stared in disbelief at the crowd who were murmuring appreciatively at this and greedily fingering the wads of leaves with which their track suits were stuffed. “But we have also,” continued the management consultant, “run into a small inflation problem on account of the high level of leaf availability, which means that, I gather, the current going rate has something like three deciduous forests buying one ship’s peanut." Murmurs of alarm came from the crowd. The management consultant waved them down. “So in order to obviate this problem,” he continued, “and effectively revalue the leaf, we are about to embark on a massive defoliation campaign, and. . .er, burn down all the forests. I think you'll all agree that's a sensible move under the circumstances." The crowd seemed a little uncertain about this for a second or two until someone pointed out how much this would increase the value of the leaves in their pockets whereupon they let out whoops of delight and gave the management consultant a standing ovation. The accountants among them looked forward to a profitable autumn aloft and it got an appreciative round from the crowd.”

― Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 57 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Infinite gold would be useful for electronics, but it would destroy gold's utility as a long-term store of value. So the wealth for shareholders would be finite, taken from today's gold holders.

[–] WolfLink@sh.itjust.works 23 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Mercury isn’t infinite, it just isn’t as broadly useful and valued as gold.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] explodicle@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'm no physicist, but it seems like once transmutation is a thing, it won't stop here.

It would be like a quantum computer breaking Bitcoin and so we fall back on Ethereum.

[–] bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 83 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I'd really love to travel back in time and first amaze an alchemist that their future colleagues will be able to turn lead into gold. Only to crush them again by explaining that the process is too expensive.

[–] TheFogan@programming.dev 39 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

I mean I guess the concept there though is, isn't making things into gold pointless anyway. We can lab make diamonds too, the jewelry industry works to keep them as a distinct alternate product to protect their slave mined ones. Is the quantity used for electronics enough that it would make a difference in typical manufacturing?

Actually kind of the ironic thing to me based on the time. Did gold have a practical use in the days of alchemy? I mean obviously mass producing gold, basically would have made it completely useless back then, it could make a small group of people very rich, provided they kept the method secret and were careful about how much they sold. It seems like the whole idea was flawed on it's head even if they hadn't based it on completely incorrect basis of the world.

[–] neatchee@piefed.social 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The jewelry and investment industries make up 45-50% of gold consumption. Practical and industrial uses make up only 5-10%.

As such, while flooding the market with cheap gold would rapidly lower value, that's unlikely to be how the gold is sold. If the amount of gold being generated from fusion reactors is orders of magnitude less than the global consumption rate from jewelry and investment, which seems likely, and they are selling at our near market value rather than trying to undercut everyone, then the value of the generated gold would remain relatively stable.

in other words, considering that the gold market generates something like $350bn USD per year, and the total market value of "above ground" gold around $25tn USD, even if fusion reactors generate $1bn USD worth of gold it would have a negligible impact on the price of gold while providing significant value to the reactor operators (incentivizing the growth of the fusion reactor industry)

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] JATtho@lemmy.world 57 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

arxiv.org: a pre-print source, this is not peer-reviewed yet. So, until other papers refer to this paper, it has low significance in the literature. The paper has references to other papers and to previous corpus of knowledge on the subject, which is good. However, this paper is based on simulations only.

Crucially, the scheme identified here does not negatively impact electricity production, and is also compatible with the challenging tritium breeding requirements of fusion power plant design because (n, 2n) reactions of 198Hg drive both transmutation and neutron multiplication

Monte Carlo transport calculations show that neutrons produced in a tokamak power plant can convert the abundant isotope 198Hg to stable 197Au via the (n,2n) channel, yielding several tonnes of gold per plant-year without compromising the tritium breeding ratio.

The decommissioned blanket material would increase in value, and the Mercury-198 in the blanket doesn't majorly impact its effectiveness in transmuting lithium to tritium.

The "worst" gold isotope half-life is less than a year, so only a modest cool-down is needed for the output:

197Au to be Class 7 when activity concentration is > 2700 pCi/g, which is reached after 13.7 years for the initial concentration listed.

An even more stringent constraint can be applied for any gold that will be regularly handled by the general population. As a highly conservative requirement, we can stipulate that this gold must be less radioactive than a banana. Due to 40K content, bananas have an activity of ∼ 3520 pCi/kg, or about 420 pCi for a single banana. To meet this requirement, a troy ounce of gold with the initial isotope mix shown in Table 2 must sit for about 17.7 years to be below a banana equivalent level of activity.

What strikes me here with this paper is the suggested liquid blanket, so this would be a kin of D-T Fusion MSR. We now have two proposed technologies behind being able handle hot radioactive liquids.

[–] Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca 33 points 2 weeks ago

must sit for about 17.7 years to be below a banana equivalent level of activity.

Banana for scale!

[–] some_kind_of_guy@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago

I understood some of those words. Nevertheless, thanks for providing some crucial context.

[–] dejected_warp_core@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

It also helps that we're talking about rather dense nuclei too. So it's not just a neutron absorbing blanket, but a rather high-performing one at that. Which you need to convert fusion outputs to heat and power anyway. And gold is soluble in mercury anyway, so extraction is already a known (albeit incredibly dangerous) process. Win-win.

yielding several tonnes of gold per plant-year

Mother of god that's a lot to magic-up outta nowhere. At first I thought this would disrupt the market, but it looks like yearly global gold production is around 3000 tons a year. So it would take a lot of reactors to impact the gold market, so... yeah. Reactors really could start paying for themselves.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 5 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

The safe level isn't that important, because the gold can be put into an ETF investment vehicle, which is a substantial enough demand for gold. National reserves (the vast majority of gold demand) too are long term holders.

2t/GWhth is a huge amount. While the best case economics for fusion is 30c/kwh cost = $3m/Gwhe, that would be 3GWhth = 6T of gold. Even at $45/oz (1/100th of current value) that would be $8m/Gwhe revenue, and would likely be able to sell electricity at market rates as the "waste product", or not even bother with the expense/complexity of electricity generation.

load more comments (7 replies)
[–] 42beansinapod@discuss.tchncs.de 29 points 2 weeks ago (6 children)

I thought they were going to make helium since it is non-renewable and humans are using it at an unsustainable rate.

[–] Atropos@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

No, silly, we'll make infinite gold and use that to purchase infinite helium.

Foolproof!

[–] Stern@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

Feel like that's a eventual when the profit margins get right.

load more comments (4 replies)
[–] Gyroplast@pawb.social 24 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Here's a link to the paper, HTH, HAND.

This is entirely over my head, unfortunately, but massively amusing!

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] gil2455526@lemmy.eco.br 24 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Wasn't the plan to use the neutrons generated by D-T fusion to generate more tritium because it is very rare on Earth? Didn't they even not have enough neutrons to generate enough tritium for self sustaining fueling of fusion that the current plan is to use a beryllium blanket to multiply the neutron flux? Where would the extra neutrons for gold transmutation even come from? Waste from the tritium breeding?

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 22 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

You can't spell "demonstrations" without "demon" (or "monstra").

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] general_kitten@sopuli.xyz 21 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

nuclear physics is just modern alchemy

load more comments (2 replies)
[–] Zoomboingding@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago

Coward didn't even call it alchemy in the abstract

[–] REDACTED@infosec.pub 19 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

I feel like this is one of those things governments might get paranoid about because their treasuries are based on a high (constantly increasing increasing due to limited amount) value of gold. Imagine one country figuring out how to produce gold and then every other treasury starts losing it's value.

[–] tetris11@feddit.uk 14 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

I wonder what the next "ground currency" will be once we can replicate everything at the atomic level. I'm hoping it's human trust

[–] lemmy_get_my_coat@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
load more comments (3 replies)
[–] space_comrade@hexbear.net 18 points 2 weeks ago

14th century alchemist coping and seething rn

[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 18 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

My first thought was “what happens to all that gold under neutron irradiation?” Apparently it transmutes back to Mercury 198 with beta decay, which is the wrong isotope. But if Mercury 198 gets hit again… I think it turns into 199, which is also stable?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold-198

A lot of papers for these reactions are behind stupid subscription paywalls :(

Still though, it does seem extremely fortuitous, and it’s possible the gold doesn’t become impossibly radioactive. Maybe there’s some other chain that will cause problems, but the immediate concern in the bulk materials seems… alright.

[–] Zeusz13@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

You might want to check out our lord and saviour Sci-hub

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] _stranger_@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

As soon as they figure out how to turn lead into porn, we'll be driving personal fusion powered space cars to mars.

[–] Tja@programming.dev 9 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Sell lead to a scrapyard, buy porn with the proceeds.

[–] Quadhammer@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago

I'm choosing to believe their autocorrect turned gold into porn and I can't stop chuckling

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] Skullgrid@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Deuterium-tritium sounds a lot like stuff from star trek

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 10 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (1 children)

https://www.marathonfusion.com/alchemy.pdf

https://thebsdetector.substack.com/p/government-funded-alchemy

tldr from that blog's assessment:

First, the researchers have a high degree of credential credibility. [...] These are very much not software engineers who think they’ve solved alchemy after talking with ChatGPT for a year or something.

[...]

Optimistically, in my mind this leaves about 10% odds that fusion energy becomes commercialized or at least piloted over the next couple decades and Marathon Fusion’s approach for the alchemical production of gold becomes a meaningful consideration for these fusion plants! That’s pretty high, and implies a high value for continuing to research this technology, even if not necessarily for Marathon Fusion specifically. Manifold [a prediction market] traders are giving this proposition ("Artificially produced gold on a significant scale by 2035?") ~20% odds, which likely reflects the discount rate on a market that only resolves in 10 years, although it also leaves room for other potential methodologies for gold production (presumably also through fusion energy but who knows).

[...]

Oh ya, this Gold is Radioactive

[–] jackr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

I... don't know if I want to believe someone who cites a gambling site as a credible source.

load more comments (3 replies)
[–] DeathsEmbrace@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (3 children)

I wouldnt believe shit until they’ve answered the stability behind these reactions. Like the Lead article where they transformed lead into another element maybe Gold…? Ok but now you would have an unstable isotope of gold that would decay.

Edit: I read the article and it’s stable in theory.

[–] neatchee@piefed.social 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Homie, Au-197 is what's being created, as stated in the screenshot, and it is the stable isotope of gold. It's the naturally occurring one.

And the reaction doesn't need to be especially stable on its own when it is a bonus byproduct of existing fusion reactor processes. The point is that we can take existing and new reactors, add this process, and immediately gain significantly extra value from the stuff we're already doing.

it's like hybrid electric cars that charge their batteries using the brakes. You're already braking and losing a ton of energy as waste. ANY way to recapture and use that waste energy that yields more value than the materials required to capture it, is an immediate win.

[–] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 9 points 2 weeks ago

If we could go back in time to tell the alchemy conspiracists about disappearing gold that would be wild.

load more comments (1 replies)
[–] HenriVolney@sh.itjust.works 7 points 2 weeks ago

This is rich!

[–] mvirts@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

And just like that gold is a proof of work currency. Too bad those economics will change as gold becomes less scarce. Buy mercury now!

[–] princess@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 points 2 weeks ago
[–] brucethemoose@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Another thing fusion reactors would be good for is “burning” high radioactivity fission waste.

…Keeping such waste in a hole isn’t that expensive, so maybe the economic viability is questionable, but still. Fusion is great sources of very high temperature neutrons for anything that needs it.

That being said, I’m skeptical of all the other stuff needed to make it practical. Like, say, the extreme neutron flux making all that incredible expensive containment equipment radioactive.

load more comments
view more: next ›