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Me and my partner hate discovery, and its not because its woke, that half the reason ST is good, but because its crewed argumentative children who are too busy going to discos to tackle the real business of star fleet.
Embarrassing writting and its doesn't respect its viewers at all.
I'm convinced that the people complaining of Star Trek being woke are bots and Heritage Foundation trolls.
Lots of the new trek is really not woke enough! We are in a utopia, what is all that dystopian shit doing in the stories?!
Yeah Star Trek is being written by idiots that don't understand how to write Star Trek. The message used to be that the social issues we have today would be alien to a future utopian society. It was the aliens had all of these social issues, but the protagonaists have moved past those issues and have to be reminded that humans had these problems in the past. It says we should stop being weird about shit so we can have cool starships.
Now it seems the future utopian society later decides they want to go back to being racist assholes again. I think the writers may have good intentions, but carelessly made a very depressing statement about how these problems will always come back and can never be overcome permanently.
Yeah, and they skipped forwards a 1000 years basically to some post-utopian-post-apocalyptic universe with "the burn".
And it's kinda weird for me that everything pretty much changed less in that 1000 years than it did in the few centuries from our time to the 24th century. And that people like Tilly have no problems going about and even being professors.
Give back space-utopia with story's about plane regular starship missions intercut with some very basic personal life storyline and then have something go wrong with the regular. mission and have that intertwine with the b-storyline about the personal thing at the end and eveyone learns something and is nice to each other.
SNW is soooooo superior to Discovery and Academy. Although I do like that the Doc's back and it's not as bad as Discovery, but...
I think the difference between most of the older trek and the newer stuff is that while they did obvious stuff like this, the most impactful social stuff they did was treat revolutionary change as boring.
TOS had a black woman bridge officer, and they didn't make a big deal about it, because in the future there was nothing remarkable about it.
This is a really good point but I feel there is a double edged sword here. Loads of old school bigoted nerds love star trek because for whatever reason they actually don't pick up on the compassionate, far left messaging.
It was also different when 50 years ago, a black woman as bridge officer was scandal to right wing sensationalist media.
The overt and sometimes performative progressive details that are present now push the boundaries in a similar manner to the old boring change, while being much more noticeable to the rest of the audience.
And when they did confront the issues, those issues were alien things, the federation was past all this nonsense and as you say, boring mundane stuff and the alien issues were always "oh we got over that hundreds of years ago, we learned about that in history".
I am not an anti-woke person in the slightest, and I wouldn’t say Star Trek was ever subtle about its leftist ideals.
But it did use to present us with a more optimistic view of the future of humanity that was largely beyond the petty dramas we have today, while still leaving room for the fact that no matter how much you’ve progressed, you do always have to fight to keep the ideals and society you’ve built. Allegories for modern problems were largely relegated to interactions with humanlike alien species so that the theme of humanity itself being “better than it was” is left intact.
And it did lose a little something when the Alex Kurtzman era came along and took the federation and humanity back to the stupid ages in order to get the point across.
The scene in Picard where you have a character living in what looks like poverty despite it being a post-scarcity age, and trying to draw parallels between her and Picard, and the different classes we have today, because she lived in a trailer and he owned a vineyard, was just next-level misunderstanding the source material. Hello they don’t have capitalism, there’s no money. It was long established by this point that humans excel due to their drive to achieve, not command a salary.
It does feel like Star Trek used to be woke, but was a story from the mouths of people who had something to say, to now it’s woke, but in a very icky corporate-sterilized kinda way.
God that scene in Picard made me immediately stop watching the whole series. There is just no coming back from that.
The same happend for me with the opening scenes from Starfleet Academy. How the heck can you portray a utopia with an introduction that is less humane than what we have now in developed countries?!
Yeah that Picard scene alone de-canonizes the entire show. Like you can’t just casually retcon exploitative capitalism back into hundreds of years of established lore lol.
It does feel like Star Trek used to be woke, but was a story from the mouths of people who had something to say, to now it’s woke, but in a very icky corporate-sterilized kinda way.
I doubt its going to get better, considering what its parent company has become.
Yep. Good analysis. Probably why I haven’t been able to get along with much of the Kurtzman era Trek. I’ve started Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks and find those two to be actually watchable, but Discovery and Picard I noped out of pretty hard after around a season each, and have no desire to even start Academy.
I will die on the hill that Lower Decks is not only the only nu-trek that is actual Star Trek, but that it actually belongs up there with the actual legacy Trek shows it parodies. And it’s got plenty of gay woke stuff in it. But despite being a parody, and forgiving the very rough first season (It’s ST, hello), it’s obviously that the writers actually understand what Star Trek is.
I fear a lot of people will write it off as “Star Trek does Rick & Morty” and it’s a shame. It has a TAMARIAN bridge officer for gods sake.
And it’s got plenty of gay woke stuff in it
I would like to stress that they're treating all the gay woke stuff as entirely normal and common, just like original trek.
On the other hand, Discovery had a painfully long and exceedingly meaningless arc about a character's struggles with society's views on their gender... When said society doesn't have any negative views at all.
It felt like me gathering my family together to have a deeply emotional announcement that I always put on my left sock first.
Damn it! You've got me in tears!
I always put on my left sock first
You monster!
Discovery had a painfully long and exceedingly meaningless arc about a character’s struggles with society’s views on their gender… When said society doesn’t have any negative views at all.
Who’s character arc are you talking about here? I don’t think that describes anything that happened in the show.
Lower Decks might actually be my favorite Star Trek, period. Including DS9 and TNG.
leaving room for the fact that no matter how much you’ve progressed, you do always have to fight to keep the ideals and society you’ve built
"Vigilance, Mr. Worf."
It does feel like Star Trek used to be woke, but was a story from the mouths of people who had something to say, to now it’s woke, but in a very icky corporate-sterilized kinda way.
Exactly it, modern Trek's wokeness is diluted and committeed to death, it's the writing equivalent of performative rainbow capitalism from corporations that now toady to the Trump administration.
Yes. Subtle, nuanced, and in no way obvious.
Which episode is this?
TOS s2e19 "A Private Little War" a rather in your face allegory for the then still active Vietnam War.
People who criticize new (or old) Trek for its wokeness are overwhelmingly not on this platform. People here who dislike Kurtzman-era Trek take issue with the lacklustre writing. At least, that's my impression. I suppose it's possible that there are a bunch of bigots commenting that I've blocked and/or have defederated with.
Absent that, the proliferation of these sorts of memes just strikes me as pandering, coupled with a misguided, combative defensiveness of anything that falls under the corporate-owned Trek umbrella, regardless of quality.
This is the exact episode I think about for all the "it's so woke now" folks.
MFing Boomers didn't fucking get it, did they?
Boomers were born between 1946 and 1964. Original Star Trek aired 1966 to 1969, so those "MFing Boomers" grew up watching the original series, and many like Michael Piller and Hilary Bader wrote episodes for The Next Generation. I think they get it fine and you're just an ass.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm saying that Boomers, as you correctly pointed out, watched the show growing up. And that for many of them, the "woke" stuff just sailed right over their heads at warp factor 14.1 (a joke that works because TOS didn't have the TNG and after warp 10=infinite speed convention).
If Boomers understood the presence of often heavy-handed social critique on TOS the first time around, facebook posts about "when did Star Trek get woke?" wouldn't really get very far. Of course, many Boomers were children at the time, focused on the scifi elements and not social issues in the plot. I watched TNG when I was a kid, and I'm sure I missed some of the less heavy-handed social critique. However, Boomers in general are vocal about things like this, and how their remembrances of things from the hallowed era of the 1960's are undeniable, even though factually incomplete.
I watch it BECAUSE it's woke.
People who accuse Star Trek of being woke fall into two camps. Either they never liked it or they loved it before the Trump era.
For the latter, they’re accusing Star Trek of being woke to try to distract from or argue against the fact that they’re embracing prejudice. As if to say: It’s not me, Star Trek has changed.
No. It’s you. You’re the villain here.
They honestly don't get it most of the time. It's an honestly horrifying the lack of comprehension of any art form that uses nuance of any sort. It'd like a face blind person that can't recognize their own spouse until they speak, level of unaware.
Gotten woke? Hmmm ... no, it has always pioneered diversity. Lucille Ball helped get Star Trek started, and she was obviously into diversity.
Whaaaaaat, Star Trek is woke?
Well its time to sleep for me anyway, good night.
conservatives complained against it being woke, and then they saw discovery and they call it woke, because of how forced characthers are. instead of calling out KURTZMAN, or the executives that are pushing those unimporant "plot/characthers in the show" plus the shoddy writing and acting.