Gwent!
this post was submitted on 14 Jan 2024
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It suffers the same problem every trading card game does: if you don't have the best cards, you lose. Skill and strategy and even luck are nothing compared to just having better cards.
IMO pay-to-win mechanics work really well for a game-within-a-game since rather than exploiting the player for money, they are exploiting the player character for effort, which can lead you to go on more epic quests
Personally I found it really annoying that halfway through the game when I decided to give gwent a go, i got absolutely trashed and was basically tole to go back to the beginning of the game and redo a bunch of areas I'd already spent too much time in.
Not to mention none of the gwent quests were epic in the slightest. They were literally "play these people, if you win you get a card".
I spent more time playing gwent then playing the Witcher.
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That's a really superficial take. For instance in MTG every format has "must have" cards, like fetchlands or shock lands (or dual lands), but beyond that there's no "best" cards. There are "meta" cards that go into a specific meta deck and when you have one meta deck playing against another that's when skill and strategy come into play. And it's not like you must build a meta deck to play, you can build anti-meta decks or lab out a completely new meta deck. The problem is that such a level of deck building skills go way beyond what 99% of players are capable of doing. Even some of the best players in the world suck at deck building, because is an entirely different skillset to playing the game.
But it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. The modern meta looks very different to when I got into MTG 10+ years ago. Some are still around in some form, like regular Tron turned into mono-g tron and burn turned into boros burn. But the bans on Twin and Pod have killed those decks while Jund and Affinity have dropped out of the meta. In those place we have brand new decks like amulet titan or 5c Omnath. Somewhere in that timeframe we also got Eggs that was literally jank cards thrown into a pile of meta-defining solitaire playing, and then it got banned for being too boring.
You can get meta cards to build a meta deck but you can't explicitly buy "best" cards because a new combination of "bad" cards can create a meta deck and then those become the new "best" cards.
What happens when a person without any good meta cards plays a person who has good meta cards?
The one with the better cards wins.
The one with a better deck wins. If a homebrew deck goes against a meta deck then it's likely the meta deck wins, but if you homebrew a deck with meta cards vs homebrewing without meta cards it comes down to how well the deck is built. A homebrew with all the meta cards but without any game plan or poor mana source distribution is going to do worse than a homebrew without meta cards, but with a clear plan and cards that support that plan.
People not building their own decks and instead just copying meta decks is another discussion.
I disagree but I understand you... I don't know why it didn't click for me as an old Yu-Gi-Oh! Player (that is the only card game I have ever played... And several minutes of a "Duel Master" card game for GBA... Perhaps that one would trigger some old memories for some it was based on an anime too).
It was my first foray into CCG type games. I did try the in game Gwent recently and did not enjoy it as much.
I guess you may feel that way because mature CCG are far better than the Gwent mini game.
All of the Yakuza games are basically, collections of well made mini games that turn each beat-em-up campaign into a hundred hours of fun. But among those, the Cabaret Club and Pocket Circuit RC race-car games from Yakuza 0 and Yakuza Kiwami, are probably my favs.
The photo minigame in Kiwami 2 makes me extremely uncomfortable, I guess it's commendable that it can make the player feel so strongly about it
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I have a few.
PGR3, a Xbox360 racing game, contains Geometry Wars 1 and 2 as mini games. YT Link
Celeste contains the entirety of Celeste Classic (PICO-8) as an easter egg in one of its levels. YT Link
Xenogears, a PS1 JRPG game, contains a battle arena minigame, and I spent a few hours on that as a kid. YT Link
Machinarium's 5 in a row minigame is so much fun, I played it with my friends at school when we didn't want to listen to our teacher :) By the way, I really recommend Machinarium to every fan of old school point-and-click games.
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Animal Crossing on the GameCube straight up let you buy little NES consoles with a small variety of titles.
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I remember spending so much time playing Farkle in Kingdom Come Deliverance, betting my money on every game. I think Witcher 1 or 2 have similar dice game that i also very into it, played with every NPC possible whenever i have the chance.
Dice poker was Witcher 1 and 2. Was fun! Then gwent came and I was hooked on that too
Funny that i can't get into gwent 😂
As a fan of the LucasArts point-and-click adventure games of the 80s-90s, it would be remiss of me not to mention that Day of the Tentacle, the sequel to Maniac Mansion (their first adventure game ever), actually contains Maniac Mansion as a minigame.
Final Fantasy VIII card game ♥️
I second this. Triple Triad is so much fun! Fun fact, they have it in Final Fantasy XIV and it's so much fun to collect the cards and play other people. They even have tournaments.
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In Super Pitfall for the SNES, there was an Easter egg hidden in a temple that would warp you into the original Atari version. If that counts, that's my favorite "game inside a game."
Kinda old school here but I really loved Pokémon Stadium mini games, also the shooter mode from Donkey Kong 64 was a blast, back in the day. Even Banjo Kazzoie/Tooie had some amazing mini games, I really loved those.
The multiplayer shooter in DK64 was so fun!
Rdr2 fishing has a following…
Gwent, in The Witcher 3!
I believe the correct answer is the loading screen minigames from Dragon Ball Budokai Tenkaichi 1-3
The Yamcha Spirit ball one had me actually trying to hit each item every time there was a loading screen lol
The door hacking in Deus Ex Human Revolution. Each one was unique, could be solved by skill (speed and precision) or with tools (consumable items found throughout the game). It was a mini puzzle game each time you tried to unlock something.
At the time, I loved it so much I tried to build my own version but it never went anywhere.
Blitzball
I really enjoyed the classic wolfenstein levels inside the new wolfenstein games
I really liked the hacking puzzles in Half-Life Alyx. There was a nice variety to the different type of puzzles that could appear, and the difficulty never felt like it got out of hand.
Not sure if this totally counts but my favorite is the Chao raising systems in the Sonic Adventure games
FICSIT Productivity Packer Deluxe (Satisfactory). It's a fun little game available at The HUB once it is fully upgraded. You take Tetris-like pieces and arrange them to fit within a square, completing as many squares as you can within the time limit to determine your score.
Then again, the real mini game in Satisfactory is the planning that goes into your factory while you are not playing the game. It's the game that just keeps on giving.
The minigame is a spreadsheet on one monitor and a production planner on the other and it's awesome 👌
Doesn't completely fit your description of minigames, but I spent days playing Casino card games with Luigi in Super Mario 64 DS. And the Hide and Seek game was great too.
Those minigames are separate from the main game though.
For minigames as "games within the game" (e.g., GTA has a lot of these like pool, golf, etc.,) throw another one up for Witcher 3's Gwent!
For minigames as representations of some other mechanic (e.g., hacking, lock picking,) I remember liking the hacking in Deus Ex: Mankind Divided. Reminded me of hacking in EVE: Online.
Probe scanning was awesome in EVE too—at least...it was a decade or so ago. Who knows if it's still the same now doe? Not me.
Galaxian as Ridge Racer loaded on the PlayStation.
FFX Blitzball is the mini-game that I sunk the most time into by far (100+ hours), and always had fun.
Gwent from Witcher 3 kind of goes without saying, the framework is so good it's spawned 3 full games that I can think of.
Best Hacking mini-game goes to the newer Deux Ex games, quick, the right amount of challenge but if you didn't like it you could basically never do it.
Best lockpicking I'm going to give to Starfield. Literally the only part of the game I actually enjoyed, each is a great little puzzle.
OMG blitzball!! Initially thought it was stupid but once it clicked I was hooked !!!
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Splatoon 2's rhythm game. I am forever angy that splat 3 has no rhythm mini game
I spent way more time than I should have playing Dice in Kingdom Come: Deliverance.
Edit: I also just remembered the hacking system in BioShock had a very mini-game feel to it. I had a lot of fun with those too.
Anaconda in TimeSplitters 2, mostly for the incredibly catchy music.
I don't know if it counts but Red Dead Redemption introduced me to Liar Dice! Now I freakin' love Liar Dice!
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ConSumo is an amazing minigame in Bully. It's the standard "eat thing to get bigger" type game but it's just done really well.
I can't think of any memorable "hacking" type ones as they all just become a chore by the end. Fable II has some wood chopping, pie making and lute playing that wasn't so bad if you can get a high multiplier going.
As for actual "games within a game" then Shenmue series has many gambling and arcade machines. Roll it On Top, Lucky Hit, Darts and then Arterburner, Space Barrier, Outrun and Hang On.
The cooking minigame in Palia is the best cooking minigame I've ever played AND it's multiplayer! It's laid back, rewarding, and easy but not TOO easy.
I'll check it out, I ended up never coming back after all the disconnects during the first few days, couldn't even create my character.
Gwent.
I didn't like the standalone version, but the in-game one had just the right level of puzzle to keep me at it.
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