this post was submitted on 16 Jan 2024
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Why return-to-office mandates fail::The question over whether to allow employees to work from home has been settled. Here’s the new normal.

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[–] kusuriya@infosec.pub 96 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Let me solve this apparently unsolvable mystery for them. You spent the last 40 years making offices soul crushing hellscapes that are grounds for psychological warfare while helping contribute to increasing commutes. People had Stockholm syndrome for a bit then they got shown a better way and they'd rather not give up a large part of their day to be tormented in a place they they don't need to be to do their job.

So when you try to force it the large majority are fighting back and you're surprised? No ping pong, pool, mandatory fun, free drinks don't offset the bullshit that is modern office design in-fact a lot of us would rather you keep all those give us a little padding in the ol paycheck and I can get my own soda and ping pong table

[–] Vlyn@lemmy.zip 60 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Besides: Fuck modern office design. Even in my company in Austria, other departments often have cushy 2-3 employee offices, plenty of space, really nice.

What do software developers get? Massive rooms with 13 people inside and no seperators for "collaboration". But while you're in online meeting A and your colleague is in online meeting B you can't even focus on your own thoughts.

[–] Melt@lemm.ee 36 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Overcrowding is the biggest issue I have with working at office. Too many people sharing a space. It feels claustrophobic and lack privacy

[–] ALavaPulsar@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Not having access to natural light is what really drives me insane. During the winter, it's possible to spend all your daylight hours at work, so you basically alternate between harsh artificial light and darkness.

[–] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 12 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Mandatory fun was always my least favorite god damn part. It isn't fun if you have to force me to have fun.

[–] linearchaos@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

My company took a different approach. It wasn't mandatory but if a group of people wanted to get together and do something once a week, They would pay for dinner for however many people showed up and they had free soft drinks and beer. We've had board games, d&d, crafting, we even had a bar night where company would pick up the first drink.

I honestly miss all that terribly, but not more than is offset by not having to commute 30 min each way every day.

[–] stoly@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

LOL I've always said that beer waffle Tuesday and a Foosball table aren't worth working with entitled idiots.

[–] banneryear1868@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

People will choose a workplace in which they have greater control, over one with nicer accommodations.

[–] Got_Bent@lemmy.world 71 points 1 year ago (3 children)

But if people don't go back to the office, commercial real estate will crash, they'll convert it all into affordable housing, and my curb appeal will lose its sweet, sweet premium value.

Let's not pretend there isn't a micromanaging control issue involved in this, but the core is all about real estate.

[–] XTornado@lemmy.ml 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (4 children)

The "they'll convert it all into affordable housing" part I wouldn't be so sure about it. 😅 Some might just abandoned it if no body wants it.

[–] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Also, I really want malls to be turned into mixed use facilities. Like all the small stores are apartments and the big anchoring spaces on the ends of the mall would be grocery stores and shopping. Imagine you forgot to pick up milk after work so you just walk to the other end of the mall and buy it. I love that idea.

[–] jak@sopuli.xyz 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It would be perfect for assisted living facilities or care home situations where accessibility is key

[–] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

The old folks are already there every morning walking around, just set them up with some recliners by the water fountain and Wii tennis.

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[–] w3dd1e@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

This. I work in commercial real estate and it’s kind of hard to turn into house. It’s cheaper for them to just knock it down and start over.

The issue is the electricity and plumbing. In a commercial building these tend to run up and down the middle or just one side of the building. Apartments need to equally have access to utilities so they’d had to do a ton of construction to move plumbing and wiring into the correct places.

[–] AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, just look at how many abandoned buildings there are in most big cities. Seems like everything just expands outwards with new buildings rather than demolishing/converting old ones.

[–] Oderus@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

They've converted a hotel here in Calgary to condos and a work friend owns one.

It's not classified as affordable housing but the conversion is possible and should be done en masse.

[–] AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Are you telling me I could afford a Center City apartment if we don't return to the office? Sign me up

I don't know if the affordable part will be particularly accurate.

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[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 70 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (3 children)

I'm in a position to have knowledge about multiple bargaining committees working on their first union contracts. The demand to RTO is literally entirely the ego of CEOs and other executives that believe their opinion is more valuable than research. They also know that employees will never accept "because we say so", so they cling to flimsy or highly biased data as evidence, without ever showing their sources or methods.

Another aspect that is likely overlooked: they're counting on people to quit. It's an opportunity to have a self-selecting layoff without massive payouts or running into the WARN act. Apple has made this more than apparent by mandating RTO at a location, and then relocating that office to Texas. They still have other labor laws to deal with, but they don't care about talent retention.

[–] owenfromcanada@lemmy.world 44 points 1 year ago

The issue with the self-selecting layoffs is that it's usually the best talent that leaves. Not that they care, as it won't negatively impact this quarter's numbers. But funny/sad to see them all confused a year later when number go down.

[–] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Have them come to office or fire them and loose maybe 50% of my company (code) knowledge while no new hires know what to do and the remaining coworkers are not trained fully in the task?

Easy choice.

I should become a CEO if I can think much beyond the horizon.

[–] bane_killgrind@lemmy.ml 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You'd be a terrible CEO because you would conserve resources during slumps to retain capacity for the future

This looks bad this year and you don't have any reason to believe that your market will pick back up, so you would get fired and the new guy would look amazing pulling the company out of the slump.

[–] Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 year ago

This was such a big /s I felt like it wouldnt need an actual /s

[–] lagomorphlecture@lemm.ee 2 points 1 year ago

My prior employer did an unforseen and sudden about face on wfh after embracing it fully. Guess who wasn't the least bit surprised to hear a couple of months later that several old coworkers got WARNed...guess enough of us didn't quit to get their financials where they wanted them.

[–] gregorum@lemm.ee 68 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

because nobody wants to return to the office.

there. mystery solved, Sherlock.

EDIT: WRT the article: because the reasons given are always bullshit unsupported by fact.

[–] jordanlund@lemmy.world 65 points 1 year ago (3 children)

It doesn't help that the people mandating return to office are working from home when they demand it.

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[–] davetansley@lemmy.world 59 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Working from home has its pros and cons. Fortunately, in my experience, the pros are all mine and the cons are all someone else's. That kind of colours my judgement.

[–] Plopp@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

You, too, do the morning meetings on the shitter?

[–] Ilflish@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know it's a joke but I could barely join a meeting in my underwear without the paranoia of clicking the video, let alone without them

[–] banneryear1868@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Happened with someone's audio once, for some reason the sound of him pissing and sighing in satisfaction wasn't getting filtered out. I just sat there wondering why nobody was muting him yet couldn't bring myself to do it because of how funny and awkward it was.

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[–] books@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago (1 children)

We don't have the data, says the company that tracks their employees and customers relentlessly.

[–] lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 points 1 year ago

The data doesn't say what we want it to so we're ignoring it.

[–] jaschen@lemmynsfw.com 51 points 1 year ago (2 children)

I quit my job because my boss demanded RTO. They asked me to come back after they rescinded the RTO.

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

They asked me to come back

on their knees? LOL

[–] GiddyGap@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] jaschen@lemmynsfw.com 3 points 1 year ago

No, I already had a new job that was founded on remote.

[–] NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago

It has become a fake discussion already.

It is not the question anymore whether work at home is better or work at the office. It is not the question whether you go back to the place where you have worked before.

It is big bosses fabricating excuses for laying off people.

How? They have closed your old office long ago. Now they tell you that another place in a different state is "your" office. Now go and "return" to there. Or they have hired you for WfH with no plans to ever work in an office, and now they tell you to "return" to somewhere.

And then you can watch them moaning and whining how so many of their employees people just do not want to "return", and therefore they need stronger policies...

[–] mawkishdave@lemmy.world 35 points 1 year ago (2 children)

To be fair many companies who said you have to return to work did this as they knew they had to do lay offs. It is cheaper if people just leave and you don't have to pay a severance pay.

[–] Omgpwnies@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago (1 children)

And more often than not, the people that left were the higher performing employees. Penny-wise, pound-foolish.

Sounds like a problem for 4 quarters from now, today we give out executive bonuses and cash out on the stock price increase!

Please don't think you have to be fair over that kind of behaviour

[–] EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Im not gonna click the link. I am gonna live under the assumption that, because that thumbnail is next to the headline, that chick is to blame.

Fuck you old lady. Let us work from home.

[–] art@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

If people can talk without being tracked they might unionize.

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